Is light tackle really ethical when there is kelp involved?

Discussion in 'Fishing Chit Chat' started by jigstrike, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. jigstrike

    jigstrike SCUBA Spearing Daddy

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    This is an actual question, not a disguised statement. I really dont have an answer and would love to hear what people think.

    I was just thinking about light tackle fiahing for big bass at a place like Cedros or Guadalupe, a place with big fish and thick kelp.

    If you fish light mono and the fish ties up in the kelp and you cant get it out, it not only sucks for you, you probably kill the fish, right? That doesnt sound ethical.

    But if you fish 40 lb spectra, you saw through the kelp and really dont give the fish a fighting chance. So where is the "sport" part of it, in the hooking up? I guess they could spit the hook so you have to keep pressure and do your part?

    With a large population of agressive fish and low pressure, that might no be too hard to hook fish over and over. I have done it. I suck. Is that sport? I dont know. I have had fun doing it that's for sure. I'm thinking about doing it again. That's whay I wanted to start this conversation.

    Of course this is bloodydecks so it will probably devolve into foul mouth homophobic rants, but if I couldn't put up with that shit, I wouldn't be here, I guess.
     
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  2. InDeepShip

    InDeepShip Ah ship

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    Well to my knowledge fish can stay stationary and still breath so I don't think it would kill the fish if u broke off it may have a hook in it but it could rust out or shake it off
     
  3. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    Keeping a bass from turning and getting hung is what bass fishin is about..
    Trust me those 8 plus lbers that we are all looking for can hang you up on 40 lb but the 40 lb gives You a chance to get it out...
    With light line in heavy kelp you have pretty much zero chance of catchin that 8+ lber that most bass guys are lookin for...
     
  4. gecsr1

    gecsr1 28' Aquasport "Reel Adventure II"

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    For close in fishing as in like LJ or PL, my go to is 30lb set up , with the cost for going fishing , I'm fishing to catch fish, if the fish are small I'll down size to 20 lb set up... but I go catch fish , after I catch limit or enough... I'll break out the lite gear to play..... Even for patty fishing I start with 30 Lb rig...
    my 30lb rigs are back with 50lb braid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  5. crabdancer

    crabdancer Kook

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    Great question-here's an answer with some recommendations and my experiences with the consequences of the lighter gear. And no homophobic rage. Haha.

    Fishing the weedless in heavy kelp is best done on 65-80# braid with a short 60-80# leader. Mono or fluoro, I like mono. A lot of hearts have been broken by 40 and 50# leader.

    On lighter gear in heavy cover with reaction baits, most fish break the line on the strike. Sometimes a hookset is involved and sometimes it's just a sucker punch, and the fish is left with some jewelry. No bueno.

    Most fish that get stuck in the kelp shake their head against the hook and come unhooked because the kelp keeps the bait stationary while they're free to move. Think of shaking bait off a sabiki rig, except the kelp is the bait shaker.

    I love fishing bass on light gear but I'll be the first to insist that there's plenty sport and technique fishing the heavy gear in the weeds. After all, it's the lightest we could get away with and have consistent results, and you want the fish that broke someone else's 50#.
     
  6. Day0ne

    Day0ne Member

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    Not necessarily so. Many fish have to move to breathe, most sharks being an example.
     
  7. the SLIDER

    the SLIDER https://multimediabylj.com

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    In the weeds; #25 - #30 braid and flouro, locked down drag. Catch em and throw em back. No need to be a dipshit.

    If your fishing large live bait even heavier.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  8. swami 805

    swami 805 I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I wish I could think of a good homophobic rant damm it. If you fish calicos and are any good at it 9 times out of 10 when the fish get hung in the weeds just give them some slack and they swim out by themselves. If you're breaking off a bunch of bass you ain't doing it right. I don't think many get permenatly stuck once the line breaks. Some will hang you up several times before you get them to the boat, just wait them out.
    I fish for bass at the channel islands alot, use 30ld braid with 20lb floro and pretty much fish in the weeds, mostly flyline live bait. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Of all the fucked up things we do to fish that ones pretty minor
     
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  9. plj46

    plj46 I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Where's the fun in using heavy line ? isn't fishing supposed to be a challenge ?
     
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  10. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    No tourney guys would ever go that light...want the slugs?? No less than 40.. most fish 50 to 80... this is correct..
     
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  11. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    Throw a mackerel into a hole in heavy kelp and pull a 6+ lber outta there and you won't question the challenge..
     
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  12. makairaa

    makairaa I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    But 99% of us are not fishing tournaments. We are sportfishing.
     
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  13. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    Tourney guys do what they have to to maximize success rate...
    Maybe it's just me but that's how I always fish...
     
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  14. swami 805

    swami 805 I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I got an 8+ and plenty of 5's and 6's last year on the island tak using 20. If you gotta use 80 you just suck at bass fishing
     
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  15. crabdancer

    crabdancer Kook

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    Don't worry brother I still fish the squid and 1/4oz leadhead on 15# sometimes when conditions slack on the local structure spots. Released plenty big bass that way.

    I'll still flyline sardines in the weeds on 50# braid to 25# fluoro at Catalina because I only get ruined every three or four years.

    The OP asked about fishing Baja kelp beds with reaction baits, and the probability of hooking that fish of a lifetime goes way up. Unfortunately the probability of not landing it stacks the deck against the lucky angler.

    Here's a math game that seems to hold true for that style of fun:

    Divide your leader strength by ten. Subtract two from that number. Add a zero to the end of that number. On a good day that's your percentage of fish that convert from hooked to landed if you're fishing kelp beds right.

    (30/10)-2=1, so ten percent is fair. They'll mostly be smaller fish.

    (80/10)-2=6, so you're at sixty percent. That's a generous number for somebody with experience.

    Add 10% to your success rate if you're using a kelp trick hook.

    Anyone taking a vacation knows that they should enjoy their time. Save the light gear for the outside spots, enjoy the challenge of heavy gear where it counts, and be kind to our pets.

    IMG_1759.PNG
     
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  16. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    Record blue marlin on 4 lb is over 500 lbs... no one is saying it can't be done ..
    .... just sayin if you want the best chance to land that bass of a lifetime which always goes through my mind when bass fishin then being able to pull as hard as you can is critical...
     
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  17. crabdancer

    crabdancer Kook

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    I love the Tak. 20# killed a couple of these big yellows between lobster gear while dirty Jesus handed out favors.

    IMG_1639.JPG

    This guy's asking about Cedros. It hurts my snowflake feelings when ya say I suck at bass fishing without buying the ticket and taking the ride to watch em break the big gear.

    Different latitudes different attitudes, and no hard feelings Bill.
     
  18. the SLIDER

    the SLIDER https://multimediabylj.com

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    Line test is only one part of the equation. A long stiff rod to pull long stroke and get them up and in the right direction accompanied with a reel to follow up is key.
     
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  19. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    I moved back here from Hawaii cause I couldn't stand not catchin saltwater bass..
    Fished with norm kagawa for much of that time at Clemente and either throwing surface iron or lobbin a Mack or brown bait into holes in the kelp was by far the funnest way to catch em...
    We had no braid then and 40 lb and a jig stick were standard ...
    By far the biggest fish at the island I've seen were consistently caught this way by just a few guys...
    Guys throwing the weed less today are basically doin the same thing but because of today's modified bass gear and spectra can throw into the heaviest cover and get it done ...
    I know big bass can be caught on all kinds of gear and doin different methods I use lighter gear too but when I'm targeting bigger fish in kelp or especially structure I gotta fish heavy .....just my opinion
     
  20. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    How about maybe we all just fish how we want to fish and live with the consequences both ways?

    While we are at it let’s all start yo-yoing yellows with 20# just to be sporting!
     
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