In the intial "bigger boat" looking phases - pros/cons outdrives?

Discussion in 'Washington Fishing Reports' started by Cohoho19, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. Cohoho

    Cohoho I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Lake Tapps, Washington
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    Cohoho
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    COHOHO - 23 ft Wooldridge Super Sport Offshore - SOLD
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    Ok, starting my year + or - quest and look for a bigger 28-31ft off shore boat. I see a lot of discussions about out drives but not much about which ones have issues and to avoid. A boat that sparked my interest has twin Diesels AD41P-A and Outdrives are DF-E 1.95 w/1440hrs.

    Hrs are my initial concern but hearing comments on outdrives makes me unsure of pros and cons. So trying to educate myself a bit more on the pros and cons of outdrives prior to getting serious in this exciting quest. Or what to be totally aware of going forth. Only previously owned outboards and only inboard was with Hamilton jet....

    Appreciate some insight for sure...
     
  2. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

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    Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
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    Howard
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    Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
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    When we looked-almost all Volvo diesels with I/Os had drive issues between 700-1200 hours. Lots of boats on the market with "new" drives. Engine parts are $$$, drives are $7-8k rebuilt, $8-12k new. Multiply that by two, and that is a lot of dough.

    See post of Ford 6.0. Why would you want to subject yourself to the chance?
     
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  3. Salmon King

    Salmon King I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Everett, WA, USA
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    Tim
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    Salmon King 21' Custom Pilothouse
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    Gasser outboards. Diesels last for thousands of hours, but modern outboards do too with regular use and proper maint. They drink more gas, but I think the total cost is lower over time.
     
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  4. Clockwork

    Clockwork I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    covington, wa
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    Ryan
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    GW Marlin
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    One of the most oft heard quotes from boat owners is " i will never own an I/O again"

    I cant comment on volvo specifically but i have torn down a mercruiser and omc outdrive. They are complex. Lots of angles, shims, boots, shafts, seals and gears. They live short lives and are undoubtedly the weak link.

    I cant think of a pro when comparing I/O to outboard or true inboard. I always viewed them as a makeshift way to adapt readily available car motors to boats back when large outboards werent available or in their infancy. As you notice they are largely being phased out as outboards have improved.
     
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  5. Walker Inc.

    Walker Inc. I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Gig Harbor, WA
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    Patrick Walker
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    33 ft. Coldwater Walkaround
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    Run as fast as you can from those Volvo drives. I think you have a typo as they are most likely DP-E drives behind AD41's. They will break and blow twice as fast as you can fix them! All you will talk about is the trips you missed and the money you spent. Hell you were scared of a Honda with a few hours, wait till you own a set of those!!!!
     
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  6. oldschool 1

    oldschool 1 Night Watchman .

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    Aberdeen wa
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    Andy
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    Oldschool 2
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    I/O Never again.... Outboards or Diesels with a gear.
     
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  7. blackelk

    blackelk Wishing I was Tuna fishing

    Location:
    Montesano, Wa
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    Mike
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    22' Osprey and 16' hewscraft jet sled
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    They all suck if you don't do proper maintenance. I have had a bunch of I/O's over the years and like the Mercruiser bravo 2. Pretty reliable for me. With the cost of a 300hp Mercruiser bobtail, I can buy 3 of them for the price of a 300 hp outboard.
     
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  8. tambs

    tambs Yo BD! Color Screens-Invented Mid '50s. Jus sayin.

    Location:
    Tri-Cities, WA
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    Tom
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    "Bottom Line" - 25' Carolina Classic SF
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    Stay with inboards, or with outboards. Run from the in between inboard-outboard nonsense. (I am one of those that Ryan mentioned.... I currently own an I/O, have owned others, and won't own another). The boat in my avatar has a DP-D1 DuoProp that I spent $6k to rebuild after buying it from the prior owner. It's been solid for the last three years, and hopefully many more. Reality will smack me upside the head one day when it implodes however, and it wont be hard to convince me to plug the transom hole and stick a shaft, gear, and rudder in it.

    Diesels are viable with straight shafts or V-drives if necessary. Yes they're heavy and expensive. Outboards are expensive too, and though not so much as a new diesel they are closing the gap. The correct diesel with proper maintenance and use will far outlast the outboard. Size it properly and use it within its duty rating it will long outlast the typical recreational boaters usage if maintained. Lack of use kills more motors prematurely than wearing out.

    Cost of diesels can be cheaper than outboards if kept for the long haul. It takes time to recover the extra capital outlay of the diesel, but in the long run diesel usually pays back if you plan on keeping the boat a good long while. If the boat is going to be a stepping stone to something larger or different and you don't plan on keeping it for many years, the cost of the diesels likely won't be recovered. Emissions bullshit that is being mandated in marine engines nowadays will make the return take longer than in the past.

    The advantages of the I/O over the inboard or outboard are so few as to be negligible. Particularly when one factors in the disadvantages. The I/O can generally travel in shallower water than the inboard, but not so shallow as the outboard. Shallow water operation is limited to low (idle) speeds only with all the options, but with the I/O you're going to severely stress the U-joint with extended operation in the tilted position. I/O's are easier to trailer than the inboard, but not significantly. I/O's typically have a slight efficiency and speed advantage over the inboard (when strictly comparing an I/O with an inboard on the same boat with the same power), and the great power to weight ratio of the outboards is hard to beat. Plan on frequent I/O repairs/rebuilds if you plan to keep it in the water, as they historically haven't fared well when kept moored. I/O's are more maintenance intensive and sensitive than other options, so if you aren't judicious in keeping things shipshape then they aren't for you. On the water, you might change a prop on an I/O, and probably could on an outboard, but an inboard will need a diver or a haulout. Inboards usually make the better fishing platform, followed by the I/O, and then the outboard. This is my personal hierarchy though, and some will have different preferences. The clean transom of the inboard is sweet to fish off of, but not so much if you wrap up in the shaft or rudder. The I/O is only a little worse with the protrusion hanging off the back of the boat, and the bottom of the heap (IMHO) is the outboards which all hang many feet aft of the cockpit on euro-transoms, brackets, integrated transoms, and the like. Whatever you get you will get accustomed to fishing around it after figuring out the best place to land the catch. Again, I'm merely giving my personal opinion here and not suggesting my preference is best or right.

    My next upgrade when finances permit will be a single diesel engine straight inboard downeast hull. A 35 Duffy would suit me just fine. Sorry Ryan if the lack of redundancy with this choice causes you some consternation. :D
     
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  9. 4v1df12h1ng

    4v1df12h1ng Sensei

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    Who
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    yes pls
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    So what you guys think of Volvo Penta I/O D4-260 with dual prop DPH outdrive (non composite type)? performance, durability, and fuel economy?
     
  10. Cohoho

    Cohoho I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Lake Tapps, Washington
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    Cohoho
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    COHOHO - 23 ft Wooldridge Super Sport Offshore - SOLD
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    good info, thanks
     
  11. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Drinking the Suzuki Kool-aid and liking it!

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    Steve
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    This topic has been copied at length in many threads, search function is your friend. The efficiency of the duo prop drives coupled to a diesel is about as good as it gets until you live the truth. All that fuel savings will be eaten up by maintenance and repair costs and.then some. Top that off with the extra cost of the initial purchase and the inevitable frustrating down time and you will curse the day you succumbed to the purchase. If you want a diesel get a true inboard with a straight shaft. Other than that outboards are the way to go. Either will be cheaper and more reliable in the long run. The one package I would consider is the Konrad duo prop behind a Cummins diesel. That Konrad drive is massive and has no shifting to complicate things. Not too many out there at this point though so time will tell.
     
  12. Walker Inc.

    Walker Inc. I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Patrick Walker
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    You have the more desirable drive. They last a little longer. The problem isn't the engine, it's the DRIVE! The H series is a more robust unit and seems to hold up better
     
  13. MYNomad

    MYNomad Heading South

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    At 28-31 feet, you are probably talking about a slipped boat. If so, that would intensify maintenance cost and reliability concerns for outdrives. Personally, I think outdrives are as popular as they are primarily because of the difficulties trailering a shafted boat. With a slipped boat, you don't have that limitation, and by the time you are up to 28 - 30 feet, there is enough length to make a shaft fit properly. If it were me, I would go with twin inboard shaft drives.
    One more thought. 28 feet, especially, and even 31 feet, is not a very good size for a boat. You give up trailerability and the nimbleness of a smaller boat, while taking on the additional costs (slip fees, bottom cleaning and paint, increased maintenance for just about everything else, higher insurance costs, etc.) that are the price of entry to a slipped boat. The marginal cost of going up to 33 feet isn't great, but there is a world of difference between 33 feet and 28 or even 31 feet. Typically better range, better sea keeping, and significantly more room.
     
  14. Omakase

    Omakase Well-Known "Member"

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    The Konrads are widely used on commercials. What makes them good (besides being very heavily built) is they have no internal forward/reverse gear, they don't have internal water pumps or water pickups and no exhaust goes through them. Tough, cheap to maintain, swing big props, etc. but big money to buy.
     
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  15. dragonballs

    dragonballs I'm off probation

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    I would stay with inboards if you can. less thing to go wrong.
     
  16. Walker Inc.

    Walker Inc. I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Patrick Walker
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    Speaking from experience? I can by two outboards to one caterpillar, but pimping ain't cheap!!
     
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  17. dragonballs

    dragonballs I'm off probation

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    I was referring to the drives.. outboards would be a hell of a lot cheaper and reliable compared to the I/O
    get a good insurance policy for sure... call pete
     
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  18. BiggestT

    BiggestT I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Speaking from experience, outdrives are ok on lighter boats. Keep them 24' and under and you'll be ok. The real constraint is the engine torque needed to push heavier boats, which the outdrives don't hold up to.

    I have over 2,500 hours on my Blackman 20 with an AQAD 31A diesel mated to a DP 290 drive. I have 630 hours on my Conch 27 with KAD 44P mated to a DPE 290 drive. I'm hoping that the lightweight cored hull will give longevity to my drive, but I'm nervous as hell.
     
  19. zanegler

    zanegler Bomboy Lures Are Money!

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    zane
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    Maybe it depends on the type of fishing you do, but I want a clean stern to troll from and to leader fish from, especially if you're not talking about a center console.

    I'll take a diesel any day because of reliability and range. I've never seen a gas station offshore.

    I don't have enough experience to opine on one I/O from another.
     
  20. Salmonater

    Salmonater Well-Known "Member"

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    Although not ideal, boats in the 28-32' range are plenty towable with the right setup. I'm pulling a boat thats 35' overall, wherever I want to go in Oregon and Washington, and love the ability to move the boat accross the road as needed. I'm running outboards and for me, their a perfect fit. The biggest issue with me and inboards in this size of boat is the storage and fuel capacity that you loose.
     
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