I don’t carry a gun to kill people!

DOGHOUSE26

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I don't want my family to be near a CCW guy who is shooting at someone he thinks is a danger So you would rather have to dodge bullets or shield your family or worse yet watch your family get slaughtered when a licensed CCW uses his weapon to nullify the threat OR AT THE VERY LEAST DRAW RETURN FIRE SO YOU CAN MAKE YOUR ESCAPE?
The vast majority of LEOs never use their gun during their career. Because they arrive after the crime has been committed
If you don't live in gang-infested areas of Chicago, if you don't work in or frequent 7-Elevens at 2am... Some people have few choices where they are able to live or go the work; we can't all afford Newport Beach or High Rise Offices with Security provided
Do you agree there should be some sensible limit on a civilians right to buy a military-type high capacity rifle? The AR15 Platform has been around since the early 60's, available to the public since the 70s and the public version is vastly different from the current military versions.
Until Government can GUARANTEE:
There will be no more firearms in Public's possession, The Government will GUARANTEE Law Enforcement will be there immediately when and wherever they are needed no matter what the circumstance, The Government will GUARANTEE my Daughter will never be raped by a Savage Individual with a knife or any other perceived weapon, When the Government GUARANTEES they will not release any violent felon back into the public because of jail overcrowding, and when Government can GUARANTEE all current and future outside threats to our nation, Liberty, and our way of life, will we ever give up the right to bear arms and that includes your so called Assault Rifles. Once we give it up it will lead to the future restriction or banning of all firearms as we all know the Government cannot guarantee anything; in fact the latest tragedy has exposed how useless it is when we have relied on them for protection and once again they have failed miserbaly. I will admit nothing we know of could have stopped the Las Vegas shooter however the Bump Stock Elimination would certainly lessen the casualties and anything making a weapon fully automatic should be banned. I don't know where you get the idea the tide is changing towards banning the AR; hopefully government will wise up by holding their departments accountable for their screw-ups, fix the mental heath problem obtaining firearms, and find a way to protect our defenseless children in their schools
 
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Aggro

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plj46

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So you harden soft targets like schools and the crazies start targeting Walmart stores. You harden Walmart stores so they target your local mall where the kids hang out. You harden the malls enough and they target....... It is a lot easier to try and control dangerous weapons than it is to control people.

Virtually every other first world country has come up with effective regulation to prevent widespread gun crime while still allowing their citizens to own weapons legitimately used for hunting and target shooting (the only other purpose for a gun really is to kill people). Those people are not fundamentally any different to US people so the only real difference is the regulations and their enforcement. Surely that shows what can be achieved if the will is there?

The Australians took a lot of dangerous weapons out of their society. The New Zealanders did the same. The British did the same. So did a lot of European countries. Mass gun crime has all but disappeared across those countries. I guess there are more mass shootings in the US in one year than in all those other countries combined in 20 years. Is it really that they all just 'got lucky' after pulling the most dangerous weapons out of their societies. Even the really bad guys in Europe drive trucks into crowds or race around knifing people to commit their terror acts. If auto or semi auto weapons were still easy to access do you think they would bother with knives?
I wish more people would educate themselves about those countries and what they did,especially Australia.Over here the gun guys are stuck on the 2nd amendment and its measly 27 words that meant something a lot different 250 years ago.
 

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I wish more people would educate themselves about those countries and what they did,especially Australia.Over here the gun guys are stuck on the 2nd amendment and its measly 27 words that meant something a lot different 250 years ago.
Wait, I thought they rounded up all their guns many many years ago...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/asia/australia-gun-amnesty-intl/index.html

But, if they still have that many firearms and haven't had a mass shooting maybe we can learn a thing or two by studying it.
 

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I want to point out I cringe when I see people write "assault weapon" or "assault gun" when referring to semi-auto long rifles. It's right there with clip and "military grade". I know that's petty but I do.

How we let the media twist that crap around and use it in day to day news is ridiculous. Some of this is downright hilarious https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2018/03/01/cannot-make-this-up-gun-grabbing-dem-sen-martin-heinrich-wants-to-ban-what/
Because people are completely clueless when in comes to firearms and all they know is what mis-information they have been spoon fed. Plus they are perfectly fine twisting the truth to further their agenda.

Check out this jackass. Skip to 1:00 for shits and giggles.
 

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Because people are completely clueless when in comes to firearms and all they know is what mis-information they have been spoon fed. Plus they are perfectly fine twisting the truth to further their agenda.

Check out this jackass. Skip to 1:00 for shits and giggles.
full semi automatic :zelfmoordSpeakin of stuff comin out his ass... look at that recoil
 
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baaadlybent

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No one can ever guarantee your safely. Or your daughter's safety. To make that the reason that America has to be armed up the ass is not reasonable. Countries around the world have figured out how to make this work. But...I never said disarm everyone. This is simply about two things. CCW/open carry laws, and military type high capacity rifles. Why do you guys keep making it out to be more? I say assault weapons, or AR-15, or military type rifle, because you and I and probably every Bloodydecker knows what that means. If the only recommendation gun owners have to secure the safety of 323 million Americans is to arm everyone and for every able-bodied and trained soul is to carry a weapon then that is ludicrous. Or to have all of our schools walled in and locked down and every student passing through metal detectors and cops or freedom fighters or militia or whatever posted as guards then that is ludicrous. Gun owners and the NRA need to take ownership of this and come up with professional experienced suggestions of what to do. Or be on the losing end. And yes the tide is changing. I'm a 57 year old white guy who owns guns. I don't have any kids who will pass that legacy on. Most of my friends don't have any kids. White people are dying off. Other races and cultures will replace them. Young people today don't have the same interests we did. They won't grow up dirt biking or fishing or hunting or shooting. They will have their iPhone glued to their face. They will hang out in their tight jeans. And they will be scared shitless of crazy old white men with guns. And as more of them identify with these kids who are getting shot up at schools they will vote for gun control.
 
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No one can ever guarantee your safely. Or your daughter's safety. To make that the reason that America has to be armed up the ass is not reasonable. Countries around the world have figured out how to make this work. But...I never said disarm everyone. This is simply about two things. CCW/open carry laws, and military type high capacity rifles. Why do you guys keep making it out to be more? I say assault weapons, or AR-15, or military type rifle, because you and I and probably every Bloodydecker knows what that means. If the only recommendation gun owners have to secure the safety of 323 million Americans is to arm everyone and for every able-bodied and trained soul is to carry a weapon then that is ludicrous. Or to have all of our schools walled in and locked down and every student passing through metal detectors and cops or freedom fighters or militia or whatever posted as guards then that is ludicrous. Gun owners and the NRA need to take ownership of this and come up with professional experienced suggestions of what to do. Or be on the losing end. And yes the tide is changing. I'm a 57 year old white guy who owns guns. I don't have any kids who will pass that legacy on. Most of my friends don't have any kids. White people are dying off. Other races and cultures will replace them. Young people today don't have the same interests we did. They won't grow up dirt biking or fishing or hunting or shooting. They will have their iPhone glued to their face. They will hang out in their tight jeans. And they will be scared shitless of crazy old white men with guns. And as more of them identify with these kids who are getting shot up at schools they will vote for gun control.
Most "Old white people" that I know have kids and most of them share the same interests we do. As a % there may be fewer people interested in firearms but numbers are up.. and getting much larger. Don't forget that if you get outside of the city it's still neck. My point being it's not just whites that are firearm enthusiasts. Nor is it just guys, or conservatives or ...etc.

But hey, I agree,let them vote on it. That's the way it should be. Vote to repeal the 2nd and go through the legal process to do it. Then you can see your bans and door knockers and people getting tossed into prison for what used to be legal. There will be a serious amount of blood shed when that happens in my opinion. More than likely another civil war.

At least that's going about it the legal way even if it means it probably STILL won't stop mass shootings. We know that bans don't because bans don't even stop the selling of semi-auto firearms.

BTW the NRA are us, people like me and a few million random firearm owners.
 
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baaadlybent

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Aggro! We were doing so good there for a while! :-)

I'm not suggesting all out gun control. I never did. Nor do I believe it will ever happen. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I used to be NRA. For a long time. But Wayne LaPierre, in my opinion, turned out to be a whack job. I used to like him. And the gal they have all over the news right now is about as good for the gun movement as Sarah Palin. Once again, my opinion. There is a place for legal gun ownership in the USA. Most likely always will be. But my two favorite subjects take that to an extreme. In my opinion... And you are correct, it's not just old white men who are gun people. I'll say instead, "traditional American gun owners". That should capture them. And as the rural areas continue to shrink, and urban areas continue to expand, and the percentages of traditional American gun owners continue to decrease while non-traditional American races and cultures continue to grow, yes, traditional American gun owners will shrink to the point where they lose the vote and become insignificant in American politics. That day is on the horizon, most likely sooner than you or I think. Yes, Trump won the election, but received less than the popular vote. How many more times do you think that will happen? So...as I continue to say, become part of the solution. And consider that there are other interpretations among learned scholars about what the 2nd Amendment actually means. It certainly is not clear cut pro-gun ownership. It has been enforced that way for 240 years because this nation was full of traditional American gun owners and there was never a majority of political support to change that interpretation. But the tide is changing...whether we like it or not. But, then again, you and I will probably be dead by then so who gives a shit. Right? :-) Time for a Friday afternoon beer.:hali_olutta:
 

baaadlybent

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And seriously, you think the NRA or the traditional American gun owner (as I love to say now) is any match to the combined armed forces of the USA? Really? They are going to shoot their own sons and daughters in uniform? That ain't ever going to happen. Not to mention Abrams tanks and all the other neat stuff the USA owns.
 
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baaadlybent

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And the day that the USA does change the 2nd Amendment (by popular vote or Supreme Court action) or interpret it in a manner that is contrary to what the traditional American gun owner agrees with, and those people choose to start an uprising, or revolution, then they truly do become the traitors. So, I suspect I've worn out my welcome for a while. Appreciate the opportunity to chat.
 

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I grew up in a very rural area with a house full of guns in the 70s. My father was a hunter. Multiple gun racks and ammunition throughout the house. It was all there for the taking as was the situation with most of my friends homes. We never had school shootings, at least not one that I can remember.

My household is not much different. No gun racks, but my children know where the weapons are and that they are 100% off limits. My 8 year old and 13 year old are more proficient with a firearm than most adults I know.

Times have changed, Society has changed and there is an obvious disconnect with the youth of today. Ridding America of available weapons to psychos is a pipe dream in America, no matter how many gun laws are passed. It will never happen guys. You have a better chance of reinstating prohibition for alcohol.

I worry frequently about both of my son's being caught up in a school shooting. There are more than 500 students in my kids school. What would a parent pay monthly to have armed guards protecting their children at school?

Let's say 500 children at 20 bucks a month. That's $10,000 a month to go towards a few well trained armed guards protecting their children. Yep, we shouldn't have to do it but something needs to be done.

When's the last time you saw one of these pussies try and go shoot up a police station? Doesn't happen because they know there is a formidable Force at that location. I'm not saying it couldn't or won't happen but I would gladly cut the check.
 
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And seriously, you think the NRA or the traditional American gun owner (as I love to say now) is any match to the combined armed forces of the USA? Really? They are going to shoot their own sons and daughters in uniform? That ain't ever going to happen. Not to mention Abrams tanks and all the other neat stuff the USA owns.
That's hardly how insurrections work. The forces usually split down the middle with both sides just like what we've seen in Russia and other split Countries. As in, both teams get the good toys. Don't forget most in the military and LE are "gun guys" when not on duty. It's never one side with the good stuff and the other side with nothing.

Most politicians, that would start this mess, don't own firearms. Anyway, this would never happen just like removing all firearms here. But yet again, bans don't actually forbid people from buying them and it also doesn't remove any either. BAN BAN BAN all sounds great on paper to those wanting to find a solution but it's just not that simple. I'd do it again just to prove my point but I really don't want any more ARs or AKs. If you think a ban works what the hell are these?https://www.turners.com/info/weekly-ad#.Wporq66nGM8
 
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Aggro

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Only 9 states have background checks, in those states the including Calif they are very effective in keeping guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them. However if you live in Arizona I can get any gun anytime I want. So the age old argument of "we have laws on the books now" is irrelevant.
Not really much you can do for person to person private sales in any State.
To purchase a firearm in America, you have to complete the ATFForm 4473. Then a federal firearms license (FFL) can: Contact the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) through a state government contact who conducts NICS checks. Contact NICS call centers for a background check.
 

DOGHOUSE26

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So as you can see, there are two sides both with good intentions but with that being said, it will be years before any weapons are banned or confiscated if ever; wouldn't it be prudent to protect our children now and secure our schools with protective measures including armed personnel? We can all agree that is the best immediate solution to the problem and frankly I believe the kids would get used to it, just as we have gotten used to the TSA at Airports and Air Marshalls on every flight. Few things have changed since Columbine and nothing since Sandy Hook; do we really want to chance another tragedy while the issue is debated? The problem will not fix itself and it is the reality that must be faced before more innocents are taken from us.
 

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The problem will not fix itself and it is the reality that must be faced before more innocents are taken from us.
google "late term abortion numbers per year" then come back and ask Liberal gun haters who are not against late term abortions why they are so worried about a relative handful of later term abortions.

are random white "school-kid on school-kid" gun numbers that much worse than chicagos' every day "black-on-black" gun numbers? or are todays gun-banners ------- in reality ------ racists?

exploiting teen deaths by those who want guns banned is simply pathetic and carries no credibility with me.

Aggro knows my positions on one specific gun issue from discussions over the past years. I respect his. We disagree on one specific details but we DO agree that banning the guns is not the answer....nor should it even be in the conversation.
 

MJB

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80 million hunters will stop almost anything.....

Some in here must live on a deserted island to think we have a civil society.....far from it......go hangout on Commercial St. after dark.....you'll change your mind.
 

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How about banning bump stops? Why does it take so long? Trump himself is waffling again on this one..why? Why does one need an AR 15? Just because it's a legal right? They are cool? They are bad ass? Me myself not sure why any one person would need either. Im in no way saying ban guns, it's your right so don't get paranoid. guys that everyone is out to ban guns. Typical responses on both sides of the aisle here..Bump stops are a no brainier ban em. That's my opinion....We all have ours. Doesnt mean they are right or wrong....
 
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Aggro

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How about banning bump stops? Why does it take so long? Trump himself is waffling again on this one..why? Why does one need an AR 15? Just because it's a legal right? They are cool? They are bad ass? Me myself not sure why any one person would need either. Im in no way saying ban guns, it's your right so don't get paranoin guys that everyone is pit to ban guns. Typical responses on both sides of the aisle here..Bump stops are a no brainier ban em. That's my opinion....We all have ours. Doesnt mean they are right or wrong....
I'm ok with banning those too

 

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I don't carry a gun because I live in a state where I won't be given a CCW :(

I live in the same God forsaken state now but I did not always. I once had a CCW and even before that I carried a legal to carry small shotgun that saved my life one night when two men decided to rob me. There is nothing quite like the sound of a load of 00buck slamming into the breech in the dark of night to make people rethink their decisions. They ran and I let them. But that was Texas here in the Peoples Republic of California we are not allowed to scare the poor darlings less we hurt their feelings.:rolleyes:
 

Rimack

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Yes and no depending on how you look at it. Yes if you can get a legal CCW for your state . But it becomes my business that your mentally stable enough to carry one. You have pass a back round check. You have been trained on how to use it, and know when NOT to pull it out. Having insurance in case something does goes wrong to cover any damage done.
I most certainly agree with Your statement.... and its still none of anyone's business if I have a CCW or not.....if you carry you better be legal and know how to use it...

oh have a great day...
 
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HighWildFree

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I see most don't understand the meaning behind the second amendment. Nor do they understand unintended consequences.
 
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Paparockcal

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So as you can see, there are two sides both with good intentions but with that being said, it will be years before any weapons are banned or confiscated if ever; wouldn't it be prudent to protect our children now and secure our schools with protective measures including armed personnel? We can all agree that is the best immediate solution to the problem and frankly I believe the kids would get used to it, just as we have gotten used to the TSA at Airports and Air Marshalls on every flight. Few things have changed since Columbine and nothing since Sandy Hook; do we really want to chance another tragedy while the issue is debated? The problem will not fix itself and it is the reality that must be faced before more innocents are taken from us.
It will be years before any weapons are banned? Try buying a Glock 41 in .45ACP or the newer Gen 5 Glocks in California and tell me about guns being banned from sale in the Peoples Republic of California. As a military veteran what happened to our right to keep and bear arms?
 
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