hydraulic steering with autopilot

Discussion in 'Washington Fishing Reports' started by sgwill122, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. sgwill122

    sgwill122 I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redmond/WA/USA
    Name:
    Stephen
    Boat:
    'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
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    I have two helms and added a garmin autopilot. The helm stops turning once the Cylinder is fully extended or retracted but if I hold pressure on the wheel it will turn another quarter to half turn after a few seconds and keeps slipping with continued pressure. If I lockout the AP pump using the shutoff screws on the manifold the steering slip disappears. I have bled the system a couple times using the method posted by Bob(connecting the cylinder hoses) turning both helms 30+ times and running the AP pump for several minutes.

    I am trying to figure out if this is a faulty check valve or air bubble in the AP pump. The pump does not have a bleed valve. Would love to hear if anyone has similar steering wheel slips while holding pressure at the end of the turn range.

    Steering via the helm or AP works fine but the slip is annoying when I am trying to do a tight turn and I feel the wheel slip.
     
  2. jbuck

    jbuck Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
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    josh
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    Is it the pressure relief in the helm? Is the helm full of fluid?
     
  3. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

    Location:
    Salem/OR/USA
    Name:
    John
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    53’ Hatteras STEEL N TIME
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    Mine has shut off valves ass well.... not needed to shit off unless a leak occurs... the shut off valves are simply a way of isolating the pump imho...

    Once bled there should be no slippage, unless there is trapped air or the valve has debris in it.... if you are sure it is bled properly then I would say a valve... e deciding factor is.... does it happen both directions or just one? If both directions, then likely air in the line... if only one direction, I would think valve...
     
  4. sgwill122

    sgwill122 I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redmond/WA/USA
    Name:
    Stephen
    Boat:
    'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
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    Happens in both directions and oil is full in the pump. Is there a way to tell air versus debris in the check valve?
     
  5. Omakase

    Omakase Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Kitsap
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    Bob
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    24 LaConner
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    does it do it at both helms?
     
  6. jbuck

    jbuck Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Name:
    josh
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    Does the second helm move when you are turning the wheel?
     
  7. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

    Location:
    Salem/OR/USA
    Name:
    John
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    53’ Hatteras STEEL N TIME
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    When I had a stuck check valve it only happened in one direction (the side with debris in check valve). I also had loss of steering on the side where the valve was failing.....

    I do not think it’s a check valve since it happens both ways.... you have a lot of fluid in different directions.... don’t know why isolating the pump would stop it.
     
  8. sgwill122

    sgwill122 I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redmond/WA/USA
    Name:
    Stephen
    Boat:
    'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
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    Steering slip happens at both helms, not sure if the other helm moves but will check today.
     
  9. Omakase

    Omakase Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Kitsap
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    Bob
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    If both helms do it then sounds like AP pump is allowing bleed through from the side of the piston that has helm pressure to the side that doesn't. When the helm is hardover in a tight turn do you have to keep a lot of pressure on the wheel to maintain the turn?
     
  10. sgwill122

    sgwill122 I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redmond/WA/USA
    Name:
    Stephen
    Boat:
    'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
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    I just did my tests again and there is no movement at the rear helm when I am seeing slipping on the front helm or vice versa. I tightened the shutoff screws on the pump manifold to eliminate the pump again and the slipping disappears. My AP pump will not stall out if I have it steer all the way to one side or the other it just continues to cycle on and off. I am able to put pressure on the outdrives and get them to turn in small increments and the helms do not turn while doing this. It is a brand new pump and Garmin is willing to RMA it but I am not looking forward to doing a reinstall. Thanks for the help.
     
  11. Omakase

    Omakase Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Kitsap
    Name:
    Bob
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    Garmin has field service techs that will check things over, I'd try to get them to come out. Could even be a setting issue.
     
  12. KimH

    KimH Someday I'll live the dream.

    Location:
    Tacoma/Westport WA/USA
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    Kim
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    26' Duckworth..."Mayhem"
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    Shadow drive feature????
     
  13. Omakase

    Omakase Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Kitsap
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    Bob
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    That might have something to do with it, try turning that off
     
  14. sgwill122

    sgwill122 I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redmond/WA/USA
    Name:
    Stephen
    Boat:
    'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
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    Unfortunately shadow drive has been disabled the entire time, it will deactivate you pump but would not allow bleedover. It could have been a source of air but it is only installed on one line not both.
     
  15. jbuck

    jbuck Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Name:
    josh
    Boat:
    29' Dyer Hardtop, 210 Ventura
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    If the second helm isn’t moving I think that that rules out debris in the check valves.

    The shadow drive is a good idea to check. I don’t know how that much about Garmin, but the one I looked at was two wires. Can you open the connection to bypass the function completely?

    I also seen the pumps fail and cause similar issues from a failed pump. Is the pump new enough to rule it out? If you pull the cover off the springs were broken on the pistons. This also caused issues with debris in the check valves though.
     
  16. aluminum clone

    aluminum clone Newbie

    Location:
    Big Blue
    Name:
    John Stone
    Boat:
    Weldcraft Cuddy King
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    First, go into the setup wizard and drive the motor port and starboard each for about 30 seconds while turning the steering wheel the opposite direction. It will force the bubble to the helm your using --past it's relieve valve. If you have an inverted bottle, you will see it burp.

    Its air. 100% sure. You need to re-bleed the system. Pay a dealer to bleed it with a power bleeder if you have to. Also, when you bleed the system, have someone rock the motor(s) back and forth to get the air from the cylinder too.
     
    G-Spot and goatram like this.
  17. sgwill122

    sgwill122 I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redmond/WA/USA
    Name:
    Stephen
    Boat:
    'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
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    After a couple more bleeding attempts with no change I called Garmin and got a replacement pump. I just got it installed and the steering slippage is fixed. I noticed metal shavings in the fluid when I pulled the old pump out so I went and got a gallon of new fluid and replaced all the old.
     
  18. goatram

    goatram Notable Member Gate Keeper to the Great Northwest

    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    Name:
    grrrrrrrr
    Boat:
    33' RBW MISS ELIZA
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    Good deal.
     
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