Hooks?

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by Olddog8, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. Olddog8

    Olddog8 Well-Known "Member"

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    I've read an assortment of advice on hooks for a 12-17 day trip, boat websites, Jeff's book, posts here and elsewhere and like a lot of fishing advice the answers are all over the place. So, on my upcoming trip, what hooks do I really need?

    Circle hooks, do I really need 5/0, 6/0, 7/0, 8/0, and 9/0 or is more of less sizes good (5/0, 7/0, 9/0)?

    J-hooks what kind and what size?

    I assume the circle hooks are for bait fishing while the J hooks are for kite or maybe Big baits?

    Once again, sorry for all the questions and thanks to all who have given advice. This is my first ultra long trip and I want to be prepared without going too berserk.
     
  2. screamingreel

    screamingreel Long Range Fanatic

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    Rick, you could just bring 2 dozen each 6/0 & 8/0 ringed Mustad 39942 or 43 (3x or 4x) circles for small bait and 3 each of Mustad 7691 10/0 & 14/0 in forged J hooks for large bait and you should be fine. Other brands and sizes work too.

    Regarding the kite, each boat does it a little different so call them to get their recommendation for kite rigs. The hooks listed above will work for the kite rigs. Which boat/trip are you on?

    I strongly recommend a large variety of hooks as you never know what will work best and the size of the bait. To make things more annoying each manufacturer's sizes are little different. If you need more info, PM me.

    Enjoy your trip!

    - Jeff Burroughs
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
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  3. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Rick, I was going to answer in detail, but Jeff already gave you a pretty darned good answer. Plus, his experience far outstrips mine! Typically, a good rule on this board is to ignore my advice...

    Seriously, I have a couple of points I'll throw out that I think you may find useful. Take them with a large grain of salt.

    1. I like circle hooks, and I prefer to use them whenever I can. I really only go with J-hooks when a circle hook just doesn't work as well (or at all!) for that application. It may well be that I push this particular bias to the limit, but it works for me. As a result, I really only use J-hooks on jigs and when fishing BIG bait (skippies or small YFT). Even on the kite, I try to use circles whenever possible. When the deckies tell me "Jim, you really do want to use a J-hook here," I surrender to the inevitable. For what it's worth, I have had great success using circles even in situations when the "conventional wisdom" calls for a J-hook. Case in point is fishing live bait for wahoo. Using a circle hook for that dramatically improves your hook to land ratio (it has for me!), and yet I seem to be in the minority.

    2. The past couple of years, I have seen a significant shift in attitudes when it comes to hook size and selection. 2011 I took my first 15-day, and what I was told then was that a 6/0 hook was really as small as you want to go. Ever. Yes, obviously match the hook to the bait as best you can, but 6/0 was the floor. The argument then was that any smaller would inevitably pull...you needed a hook at least that big to be able to get enough of a bite to hold the fish. Starting a couple of years ago, though, I have had captains tell me that a 5/0 is a good call for sardines, especially when they are not all that big. Last year, a lot of the hottest sticks on my trip were using 5/0s and even 4/0s. Come to find out these guys always used smaller hooks. It has been a big part of their mystique...and a closely guarded secret. I may not use any 4/0s...I hope I don't have to!...but I will be bringing some. Just beware...smaller hooks can lead to pulls...more with J-hooks than circles, but it happens.

    3. As much as a smaller hook size can be effective in terms of stealth, a thinner hook diameter can be a real secret weapon. Bait handling has always been key, but being gentle with a bait may not help if you are driving a gigantic wire through it. When you are (like me!) still working on becoming better at handling bait, any edge you can find in terms of pinning the bait can really help you get bit more often. For a couple of years now, I have been on the hunt for the best combination (in my own very subjective opinion) of strength and thinness. So far, the best hook I have found is the Owner Mutu...the regular one, not the "Super." It is a surprisingly strong hook, very sharp point, very thin wire. Unless you manage to hook a big tuna in the wrong spot (hard to do with a circle hook), you need as much as 90-95lbs of pressure to deform the hook...way more than enough to catch HUGE fish. This, even though Owner themselves don't recommend the hook for this kind of fishing. Yes, I am looking for a slightly stronger hook, and I plan to try some of the VMC Nemesis circles this time around. But until I find something that I really think gives me a better overall combination of strength and thin wire, Mutus are going to be my go-to hooks for sardines. Again a warning...it is possible to break these hooks. I never have and I fish heavy drag, but there are certainly plenty of stronger hook options out there. You need to find the right hook for you. I just recommend that if you are choosing between thicker wire and thinner wire, opt for thinner.

    Hope this helps!
     
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  4. timmyd3853

    timmyd3853 I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    i agree with Jeff but id go 10/0 on the circle hooks too and just the 39943's unless you wanted the 39942's in the smaller hooks for stealth. and id bring more than just three of the J hooks as you may end up fishing squid or flyers on the kite and those rigs are two hook rigs the only other thing i might bring would be a few maybe 4 or 6 each of 16/0 and 18/0 duratin circle hooks and you should be good.

    oh and maybe bring some small hooks for making bait or fartin around with chopas or other small game fish.
     
  5. Olddog8

    Olddog8 Well-Known "Member"

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    Thanks all for the info, as important as the hooks are, I'm surprised there is not more discussion on them. What to use, when to use it and why. I guess it is just something people that do this type of fishing understand innately. If I'm on a five day, I just instinctively choose hooks for the situation without too much thought, if things are slow I down size, wide open, I'm pulling bigger hooks out. I've only fished the kite a couple times, and never a bait as big as some of the tuna in my freezer right now.
     
  6. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

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    Perhaps the lack of responses is because opinions on hooks are like opinions on beer and cars, everyone has their favorites for whatever reason….every hook referenced has caught cows and work in certain circumstances ALL have failed in certain circumstances, you have to choose one and compromise sometimes

    The key for my selecting a particular hook is using the lightest gauge wire possible while still having enough strength not to fail by bending or breaking…….I also use circle hooks which are wide gapped and non kirbed to avoid hooking the fish in places other than the corner of the mouth. On occasion i will use J hooks…big baits and finesse fishing with small sardines.

    What hook do I use??..ringed Eagle Claw L2004's………mostly 7/0 sometimes 6/0 if the baits are small or weak and 9/0 and 10/0 for squid or maks or salamis. This was the hook recommended to me by Mike Lackey on my very first cow trip caught a cow with it on that trip and never saw a reason to change…..still have that special hook in a place of honor my tackle cave.lol

    I have been using them since that trip in 1997 and have NEVER had one fail…..there are many people who swear that they would never use one because they bend….I have not had that experience and have caught many many fish in the 150# to 190# class and over a dozen cows with Eagle Claws……most of my kite fish on the double trouble have been with 6/0 Super Mutus and the big squid kite rig is usually a 20/0 mustad circle and a 14/0 Mustad 7691……
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  7. Olddog8

    Olddog8 Well-Known "Member"

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    Thanks!

    Read the other hook thread too, good info, no idea how I missed it
     
  8. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Fish whatever you want as long as its not Mustad!!!
     
  9. Olddog8

    Olddog8 Well-Known "Member"

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    Pardon my ignorance, what's wrong with mustad?
     
  10. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    John is not a fan of Mustad hooks. In his defense, he has reason to dislike them, but you need to get that story from him.

    As an aside, John owns Trophy Tackle, and is a pretty good angler. I don't entirely agree with what he says about Mustad, but he's knowledgeable enough that he is worth paying attention to.
     
  11. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    HA! Pretty good angler! Dont entirely agree with him!

    I resemble those remarks!

    Thanks Jim!

    And yes my bias with Mustad is with the 3x and 4x circle hooks. And the fact they moved their production to China and their prices went up. And the fact that I personally straightened 4 4x circle hooks on one trip.

    There are a hundred Mustad Circle hooks on the bottom outside of the buffer zone courtesy of me. It may have been one of the funnier episodes in LR fishing. It was also pretty expensive.

    Long funny story. And yes I will never ever fish a Mustad Circle hook.
     
  12. wahoodad

    wahoodad Yaddah X3

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    And then, I highly recommend the Mustad 39943 circles. Never have straightened one out. I don't ever pull the hook since switching over to these.

    Like Fishy said, less filling/tastes great, Ford vs Chevy, etc, etc.
     
  13. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Yep David. My prejudice is just that! Boneheaded stupid prejudice. But what happened to me happened and I have been in hook therapy ever since.
     
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  14. Tim Turis

    Tim Turis Well-Known "Member"

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    "There are a hundred Mustad Circle hooks on the bottom outside of the buffer zone courtesy of me. It may have been one of the funnier episodes in LR fishing. It was also pretty expensive".

    LMAO; would have paid to see! Thanks again for the laughs Professor!
     
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  15. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Actually truth be told BHP, Jan, Kenny and TT himself all told me the hooks were da bomb! So I switched over. After the two episodes (straightening the hooks and then throwing the rest overboard in disgust) EL Hefe quoting his inner Public Enemy told me "Dont Believe the Hype".

    And Tim you know we never disagree with El Hefe.
     
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  16. wahoodad

    wahoodad Yaddah X3

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    No problem John, who knows, I might decorate the buffer zone someday! :D
     
  17. harddrive

    harddrive Wish I Was Fishing!

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    There has been a lot of information on the hook. But from my trip on the Q105 with Brian Simms and Shogun with Bruce Smith and Norm. The hook needs to be big enough that when it's hooked in the corner of the mouth, the eye of the hook needs to come outside the tuna's jaw hinge plate. Look at the picture of a tuna and look closely at the corner of it's mouth, the hook eye needs to be outside of the hinge of the jaw or you will get chewed off for sure and doesn't matter what brand you use.

    J hooks or Circle can do the same, but all depends on if you are efficient at hooking the bait with the hook. Some people have a hard time hooking the bait and it's better to use the J hook. But if you are good at hooking the bait, I would prefer the circle. But both hooks if you do not swing, they will go to the corner of the mouth.

    Brands. I think all brands work. Some will snap as they are strong but brittle and if you hook point goes into a bone. No matter what the brand it is, it's going to snap or straighten.
     
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  18. Soda Pop

    Soda Pop I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I only fish Owner super mutu hooks. I like the 5/0 size for the bait. But if you look in my tackle box I have 2 trays full of owner hooks. If your new or don't have a ton of $$$$ go with 5/0 to start and build around that.... 6/0 ....8/0.... 10/0 ect. ..... but my number ( 1 ) hook to go for is a 5/0 for the bait the boat has.

    Forgot to add I like the ringed circle hooks.
     
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  19. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    Sounds like, if you're new, or don't have a lot of $$$, just fish a trip with Soda Pop!
     
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  20. Soda Pop

    Soda Pop I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    OOKKKAYYYYYY
     
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