Honda 225 problem - Looking for help

Ben Green

Almost A Member
Jul 15, 2017
154
185
52
Malibu
Name
Ben
Boat Name
Fish
2017 Honda 225 with 1,000 hours on a Grady 22 and never had an issue until recently.
Always happens coming back from a trip after the motor has been running at high rpm (4,000).
It starts choking and sputtering, like it is trying to draw more fuel than is being delivered and when I pull back on the throttle it starts running smooth again.
Motor never actually stops and after a few minutes I can go back to high rpm.
At this point the primer bulb is compressed flat, so I suspect it's a vacuum buildup and ventilation issue.
I replaced the fuel line and primer bulb and also had the mechanic snake the fuel system, but that has not resolved the issue.
Spoke to another guy who said it could be crap in the tank and to drain it, but before I do that I wanted to ask here first.

Any ideas?

Thanks for constructive feedback...
 
Upvote 0

sickcat

Silverback
  • Aug 5, 2003
    4,363
    2,838
    65
    LA
    Name
    Kerry
    Boat Name
    Yellow spot
    Sounds like it takes a while to happen. When the problem is happening have to tried opening up the fuel fill cap to see if the tank is under vacuum? Doing that will help narrow down the problem. Check the tank vent to make sure it is clear.

    If the tank is well vented and not under any vacuum next thing I would check is the anti-siphon check valve. Usually the first fitting coming off the pickup tube.

    Junk clogging the pick up tube is certainly a possibility. Any idea how much junk is showing up in your filters?


    No disrespect but snaking the fuel line is not a good way to address the issue unless it is disassembled first. Even then better to blow it out.
     
    Upvote 0

    dwaynesda

    dwayne
    Apr 27, 2003
    1,495
    1,298
    nii
    goog.com
    Name
    go
    Boat Name
    Cabo 216
    The collapsed fuel ball is a typical sign of fuel starvation. There is a blockage in the fuel line between the primer bulb and the tank. Typically it will be a fuel filter that is plugged and needs to be changed. Start by changing the filter.

    A blocked vent line is also a possibility. If you can remove the vent line from the fitting, try to blow through it to see if it is blocked. If it is blocked, a gently blast of compressed air through the line will generally unblock it. Be sure to remove the fill cap first though to allow the air to escape somewhere otherwise you will get blow back through the vent line and possibly a face full of fuel in the process.
    Good luck
     
    Upvote 0

    sickcat

    Silverback
  • Aug 5, 2003
    4,363
    2,838
    65
    LA
    Name
    Kerry
    Boat Name
    Yellow spot
    When putting air pressure on any part of the fuel system be gentle as Dwayne mentioned. Tanks are usually pressure tested at 2-3 pounds of pressure. Much more than that can ruin a perfectly good tank in a hurry.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Ben Green
    Upvote 0

    Ben Green

    Almost A Member
    Jul 15, 2017
    154
    185
    52
    Malibu
    Name
    Ben
    Boat Name
    Fish
    Sounds like it takes a while to happen. When the problem is happening have to tried opening up the fuel fill cap to see if the tank is under vacuum? Doing that will help narrow down the problem. Check the tank vent to make sure it is clear.

    If the tank is well vented and not under any vacuum next thing I would check is the anti-siphon check valve. Usually the first fitting coming off the pickup tube.

    Junk clogging the pick up tube is certainly a possibility. Any idea how much junk is showing up in your filters?


    No disrespect but snaking the fuel line is not a good way to address the issue unless it is disassembled first. Even then better
    I tried opening the fuel cap while this was happening and it didn't make a difference.
    Any idea where I can find the anti-siphon valve?
     
    Upvote 0

    dwaynesda

    dwayne
    Apr 27, 2003
    1,495
    1,298
    nii
    goog.com
    Name
    go
    Boat Name
    Cabo 216
    I tried opening the fuel cap while this was happening and it didn't make a difference.
    Any idea where I can find the anti-siphon valve?
    It is generally screwed into the tank and the fuel line is clamped to it. My friends Parker had to replace the anti siphon valve replace years ago. There was something large in the tank that would get sucked up at the end of the day when the tank was low on fuel, much like your situation. The object would get lodged up against check valve and would block the line. I suggest that if you replace the valve that before you put it back in, if the blockage is not lodged in the fitting that you siphon the remaining fuel out of the tank and hope that the crap gets removed.
     
    Upvote 0

    sickcat

    Silverback
  • Aug 5, 2003
    4,363
    2,838
    65
    LA
    Name
    Kerry
    Boat Name
    Yellow spot
    How old is the boat?

    If it is an older boat I agree with Dwayne I would want to see what kind of junk is in the tank.

    It does happen that a check valve gets sticky and blocks adequate fuel flow with only minor debris and replacing the check valve will fix it if that is the actual problem. If I'm going to get in and work around the fuel pickup to replace it it may well be that it is not a lot harder to pull the pickup and suck a good sample of fuel from the very bottom of the tank and see what debris and water you have. That also gives to a chance to look at the pickup itself. Some have a screen at the end which can deteriorate and cause issues.

    Depending on what your fuel sample looks like you may well not have to drain the tank. Use a fuel pump and run it through your filter to vacuum out the junk and just return it into the fuel fill. Always use proper precautions when dealing with gas.

    What you find when you look at the pickup tube assembly will dictate what should happen next. Hopefully you'll have decent access and it won't be a corroded mess.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Ballena Lenta
    Upvote 0

    Ben Green

    Almost A Member
    Jul 15, 2017
    154
    185
    52
    Malibu
    Name
    Ben
    Boat Name
    Fish
    How old is the boat?

    If it is an older boat I agree with Dwayne I would want to see what kind of junk is in the tank.

    It does happen that a check valve gets sticky and blocks adequate fuel flow with only minor debris and replacing the check valve will fix it if that is the actual problem. If I'm going to get in and work around the fuel pickup to replace it it may well be that it is not a lot harder to pull the pickup and suck a good sample of fuel from the very bottom of the tank and see what debris and water you have. That also gives to a chance to look at the pickup itself. Some have a screen at the end which can deteriorate and cause issues.

    Depending on what your fuel sample looks like you may well not have to drain the tank. Use a fuel pump and run it through your filter to vacuum out the junk and just return it into the fuel fill. Always use proper precautions when dealing with gas.

    What you find when you look at the pickup tube assembly will dictate what should happen next. Hopefully you'll have decent access and it won't be a corroded mess.
    Boat is 1986, so she's an older lady and sounds like there could be shit in the tank. Guess I should siphon out the tank before I start taking the motor apart. Tank is about half right now (35 - 45 gallons) so not sure what to put all that gas in, any ideas?
     
    Upvote 0

    sickcat

    Silverback
  • Aug 5, 2003
    4,363
    2,838
    65
    LA
    Name
    Kerry
    Boat Name
    Yellow spot
    I would not touch the engine at this point.

    Take a fuel sample and see what you have going on. You have to get to the bottom of the tank - pulling it from the fuel pickup will not get it done. Again if there is not a lot of junk or water (assuming the fuel is good) you may well not have to drain it entirely. The lower the fuel level the better but again it depends on what you find in your sample. If you do have to drain it I would run it in your car after running it through a 10 micron Racor. I have a little holly fuel pump I use for such things (#12-427 IIRC) or since your on a trailer you can siphon it. I'm in Long Beach and have a 25g stainless tank you can borrow if that helps.

    I would assume we're talking about an aluminum tank yes? At 36 years old it's possible the tank is original but likely it has been replaced at some point.
     
    Upvote 0

    Ben Green

    Almost A Member
    Jul 15, 2017
    154
    185
    52
    Malibu
    Name
    Ben
    Boat Name
    Fish
    I would not touch the engine at this point.

    Take a fuel sample and see what you have going on. You have to get to the bottom of the tank - pulling it from the fuel pickup will not get it done. Again if there is not a lot of junk or water (assuming the fuel is good) you may well not have to drain it entirely. The lower the fuel level the better but again it depends on what you find in your sample. If you do have to drain it I would run it in your car after running it through a 10 micron Racor. I have a little holly fuel pump I use for such things (#12-427 IIRC) or since your on a trailer you can siphon it. I'm in Long Beach and have a 25g stainless tank you can borrow if that helps.

    I would assume we're talking about an aluminum tank yes? At 36 years old it's possible the tank is original but likely it has been replaced at some point.
    Thanks for the feedback and honestly not sure if the fuel tank is original or not, I am up in Oxnard at Channel Islands harbor so won't get to Long Beach but thanks anyway
     
    Upvote 0

    Reel 007

    I Should Upgrade My Account
    Jun 12, 2006
    1,990
    1,196
    Glendora Ca
    Name
    Leon
    Boat Name
    28 Wellcraft Coastal "vagabond'
    Boat is 1986, so she's an older lady and sounds like there could be shit in the tank. Guess I should siphon out the tank before I start taking the motor apart. Tank is about half right now (35 - 45 gallons) so not sure what to put all that gas in, any ideas?
    I have a great idea, in the tank of my gas-powered truck.
     
    Upvote 0

    Crowman

    Member
    Mar 3, 2017
    541
    612
    21
    Northern California
    Name
    Crowman
    Boat Name
    YES
    Boat is 1986, so she's an older lady and sounds like there could be shit in the tank. Guess I should siphon out the tank before I start taking the motor apart. Tank is about half right now (35 - 45 gallons) so not sure what to put all that gas in, any ideas?
    There's your problem. When they made your boat the gas lines were not rated to have alcohol (ethanol) mixed in the gas like we have today. The Ethanol will eat the liner in the gas line into small parts to clog the line and filters. Replace all the gas lines from the tank fitting to the motors and I think that will solve your problems. Lots of YouTube video's on that problem.
     
    Upvote 0

    skipjack

    I Should Upgrade My Account
  • Oct 20, 2004
    1,216
    590
    68
    santa maria
    Name
    skip
    Boat Name
    2320 Parker "Donna Marie"
    I would pull the pickup tube out of the tank. It probably has a small screen on the end of it. Check that and check the tube out carefully. I had a crack in my pickup tube that was drawing air,causing similar problems.
     
    Upvote 0

    Ben Green

    Almost A Member
    Jul 15, 2017
    154
    185
    52
    Malibu
    Name
    Ben
    Boat Name
    Fish
    There's your problem. When they made your boat the gas lines were not rated to have alcohol (ethanol) mixed in the gas like we have today. The Ethanol will eat the liner in the gas line into small parts to clog the line and filters. Replace all the gas lines from the tank fitting to the motors and I think that will solve your problems. Lots of YouTube video's on that problem.
    Replaced all gas lines over the weekend and found crap in the anti-siphon valve that was blocking flow. Didn't get a chance to try it yet, but I think that was it.... Thanks
     
    Upvote 0

    split172

    Member
    Aug 3, 2015
    461
    570
    Orange County
    Name
    One More
    Boat Name
    Steiger Craft 25
    Replaced all gas lines over the weekend and found crap in the anti-siphon valve that was blocking flow. Didn't get a chance to try it yet, but I think that was it.... Thanks
    Don’t stop there. All that gunk has travelled through the systems. Screens and filters catch what they can but not all. Do the injectors, all screens/filters, fuel rail. You won’t regret it. I saw big gains again in power, response, and mpg.
     
    Upvote 0