hollowcore splice failure-- help diagnosing problem, please

ifish42na

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Oct 23, 2004
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Late to the thread here. Like others have stated, 130lb C16 hollow is a mis-match with Yo-Zuri HD 130lb fluoro. It pays to physically check the line diameter, not rely on test, or what's printed on the package in this case.

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Bill W

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    Curious if whatever way you serve, half hitches exc… If you put a nail knot on the leader. (the nub) Should contain the slip. But you need small diameter spectra.
     
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    vipertom1970

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    Line slipping from HC serving is not affected by serving with this method. Yes, you could have 2-100% knots.


     
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    Steve K

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    Curious if whatever way you serve, half hitches exc… If you put a nail knot on the leader. (the nub) Should contain the slip. But you need small diameter spectra.
    Great idea, using the Nail Knot / Nub system pioneered by Gary Teraoka. The only failure I’ve experienced was using the nail knots with a nub. I asked for it, and Gary built the connection for me. It was 100 lb Seaguar Premier, diameter .91 mm, inserted into, you guessed it, 130 lb hollow. After the failure, I showed it to him and he asked, “Who tied that?” I told him it was him, and he said we don’t recommend 130# for that diameter leader. Valuable info, after the fact. A learning curve deal, no big deal as I had more than one disaster that morning. We all had a good laugh about that. :)

    After an exchange of messages with Basil, I switched to 80 lb hollow and have had zero failures since. I use 80 lb for 130 lb Premier as well, diameter 1.05 mm.
     
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    Bill W
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    It is not just the 130#, it is the 16 carrier 130#. When Paulus site was up he discussed the 16 carrier issue danger.
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    Steve K

    Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
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    The 80# hollow is 16 carrier.
     
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    But add the larger diameter straw that 130# makes you have a problem. 16 carrier is easy to work with. Easy in, easy out. Add stretch that Premier has and off and on in the water… Well you know the results.
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    harddrive

    Wish I Was Fishing!
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    I had an interesting failure last year. 100 Seaguar to 100 hollow Jerry Brown. We were fishing for BFT during the summer night bite. And I had a Daiwa SK 250G jig on with about 10 feet leader. Inserted 4 feet and I serve with the bobbin about 2 to 3 inches with the 30lbs JB solid spectra until it turns translucent with Tac Glue. I hooked up to a big fish and I handed it off to my buddy who hasn't caught a fish yet.

    He was on the fish for who knows how long. But, the fish was a freight train and wouldn't stop. He was on the bow with about 1/3 the spool left on a Mak 20 and an inexperienced deckhand bumped the drag even higher.

    After a while, the light goes limp, and when he reeled in. I saw a pigtail at the end of the spectra where you insert. When I looked closer the line had broken inside the insert about 2 feet left inside the hollow. I've never seen that before. It must have broken inside the spectra and the rest of the leader went bye bye. LOL
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    The chinese finger cuff main grab point, broke? Maybe some hollow wrinkles unwrinkled and gave room for a (jolt)

    Could just use 2 sato crimps for $2. Two inches apart from eachother. Crimp each crimp twice at 180 degrees from each side. For a 360 grab. Per crimp. 720 total 🤙🏾

    FB_IMG_1643232004852.jpg
     
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    harddrive

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    Haha. First time for me. I used to use Sato and it works then someone showed me how to serve.

    The chinese finger cuff main grab point, broke? Maybe some hollow wrinkles unwrinkled and gave room for a (jolt)

    Could just use 2 sato crimps for $2. Two inches apart from eachother. Crimp each crimp twice at 180 degrees from each side. For a 360 grab. Per crimp. 720 total 🤙🏾

    View attachment 1350327
     
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    Rodless_Jim

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    4 feet of 130# HD into hollow Cartland 16 130#. Sure sounds like it should have held, at least for a while. 16 carrier hollow actually does not grab as well as 12 carrier but is easier to work with. I did the nub for a while and never had a failure. Now do the FG for simple. As long as it still works for me, that is my go to. Wonder how all the 1/2 hitches came loose? That part has got me to wonder?
    One issue here may be the Cortland braid. I think it's excellent, but it is looser than other brands. It seems unlikely that the diameter of the weave would make that much difference, but it is one thing to look at. I have always used TUFLine, and very much like my results.

    In a more general sense, though, you need to look at the spot where the fluoro exits the spectra. Any kind of spliced connection using friction (often called a finger trap) will fail in a specific circumstance: something causes the line to start to bunch up at that spot. That is the primary cause for the friction cuff to release and the line to slip out.

    I've seen this happen (for others) when a fish goes around the anchor line and then goes on a run. The friction of the anchor line can push the spectra "up the fluoro," causing the spectra to bunch up and release the tension.

    I mostly don't use finger trap connections anymore...just for really heavy line (200lbs and up), but for many years the structure of my connections was especially designed to prevent exactly this from happening. I use nail knots for this (no nub), and the first one I tie is with 65lb solid spectra, 7 or 8 wraps (as many as 10) going from the spectra over the edge of where the fluoro comes out. With practice (and patience!) you can make that knot look like a short serve, perfectly tight and translucent, and really holding the cuff of the spectra right where it is. Then I add a couple more nail knots, this time 3-wrap knots using 100lb solid, and again, tight as Hell. These two knots bite into the spectra and the fluoro beneath it, very much like a Sato crimp. Finally, I glue the bottom 8" or so with TACGlue.

    There's no way for that connection to fail, and in point of fact, it never has. I'll see if I can find a couple of photos of leaders I made to illustrate what I mean.

    Meanwhile, I personally fish using the Tony Pena or the FG for most line weights.
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    I forgot to mention. After I smooth out the wrinkles and get tight

    I glue between the 2 sato crimps and crimps. Squashing the glue in rapidly with my thumb and index finger. Hard and fast enough. Just before my thumb and index become attached to the glue :D then blow on it
     
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    harddrive

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    I don't know Brad. That sounds way too descriptive in the wrong way. LOL

    I forgot to mention. After I smooth out the wrinkles and get tight

    I glue between the 2 sato crimps and crimps. Squashing the glue in rapidly with my thumb and index finger. Hard and fast enough. Just before my thumb and index become attached to the glue :D then blow on it
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    LOL a first time not deliberate

    Finish. With the finger cuff as tight as it can get with human strength imo

    Should see me tie a back to back uni in proper low diameter. With either spectra to spectra or spectra to mono/fluoro. I need space and nobody still understands exactly what I'm doing. That I know of. I can't put it into writing without people going cross eyed
     
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    harddrive

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    Nice one Brad. LOL

    Hey. Myself and some of my buddies want to come to Costa Rica and visit you and do some fishing. No tuna, Pargo, and other kinds of fishs.
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    Cruise down. To be honest the cubera fish are larger out of PV. But on skipjack gear. PV offshore takes the pressure off those fish

    I have January 29th booked and February 19th. Then I should have my ski back. Can you make it here tomorrow :D ? I'm so remote. It's just easier for me to go solo unless a passionate fisher wants to join. I can legally sell sport caught fish here and I have a market. A dream. Door is open

    Vince visited the last week of Nov. And caught this 60+ on a popper spin gear. Super accomplishent first try

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    Yesterday

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    🔥
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    pukahd

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    Response to HARDDRIVE - 2nd topic :

    Here’s a close up of my connection with 130 Hollow and 130 Seaguar Blue. 3 green 20# nubs, 3, 8 turn nail knots with 30#, glued. Ended the fight with 45 lbs drag and reeled in a 220 chunk fish. I wanted to check for slippage. Zero movement.




    A08C4A4C-531F-4E8E-BDE8-96CEEEE9B822.jpeg
     
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    Bill W

    tunaholic
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    Nice connection. Another issue that can transfer loading back and forth is when the leader end pokes out of the spectra.
     
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    harddrive

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    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for the info. Like I said it was handed off to my newbie buddy. I should have been next to him instead of the deck hand. I pulled on it for a bit and from my experience, it was a very big BFT.

    On using the bobbin. I used to use the sato and never had that fail and when I switched to the bobbin and have never had that fail while I was on the fish. Who knows. Nothing is 100% and the stress will always find the weakest point.

    A few years at Clarion fishing a man bait. I was about to get spooled on a Mak 50W with about 1200 yards of 130. When the new deckhand was about to throw the backup reel overboard. A backlash caused the line to go limp. When I wound it back, the catspaw on the leader's side had broken.

    It is fun and not guaranteed. That is why we go and try again.





    Response to HARDDRIVE - 2nd topic :

    Here’s a close up of my connection with 130 Hollow and 130 Seaguar Blue. 3 green 20# nubs, 3, 8 turn nail knots with 30#, glued. Ended the fight with 45 lbs drag and reeled in a 220 chunk fish. I wanted to check for slippage. Zero movement.

    From your mention about the break 2 foot down, seems like somewhere in the fight the hollow bunched up and pulled uneven pressure within the 2 ft spot and pop! Maybe at a time where the fish turned and a lot of slack happened or maybe as Rodless Jim


    mentioned about the fish rubbing the anchor line down deep.

    But even if the fluoro gave up 2ft in the hollow the, 2’ still inside should have held on. Even with a 12” or so left it should have held. Seems like your 3” bobbin serve also slipped off the end. Otherwise there would have been remains still on the spectra. Sato Crimps, nail knots should have kept a grip. Personally, I don’t prefer to use 1 bobbin serve that splits gripping on to life 1/2 spectra and fluoro. I’ve seen where the 30 turn stretched and the serve unraveled. There is stretch in the fluoro at the point of hollow entry which reduces the diameter leading to a slip. That’s just me but lots of guys prefer the bobbin serve.


    View attachment 1350377

    View attachment 1350378
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    Cats paw. One leg was longer then the other 3 legs. Then the 1 longer leg took on most of the load? Failure

    Pre make. Forget the loop if hollow to hollow. Leave a long tag end of hollow from the top shot. Then just inline splice the hollow tag end of the top shot into the main hollow off the reel. Pre made inline connection. 🤙🏾

    Who wants 2 big loops with 4 legs? Ugh. With the loop off the reel. Reused again and again off the reel
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    Or just use sato crimps with no pre made top shots.

    With hollow off the reel. Bring the top shot straight into the hollow. 2 sato crimps done.

    That is as clean as it gets. Seamless knotless top shot connection
     
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    harddrive

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    The two legs of each side were even. It just broke on the leader side loop. I was out 1200 yards out and when the backup rig reel backlashed locked up and something had to give. It ended up being the leader loop. The fish was on fly lined skip jack and it was a freight train.

    I like the loop the loop. I know people who do the leader straight into the mainline and I know they like it. But, they need to get the needle out and put in new leader. Me, I just change the leader with the new loop and done. Some guys are changing line after dinner. Me and my buddy are drinking. :D

    Now I do the FG or Tony not up to 130.

    What ever works for you.




    Cats paw. One leg was longer then the other 3 legs. Then the 1 longer leg took on most of the load? Failure

    Pre make. Forget the loop if hollow to hollow. Leave a long tag end of hollow from the top shot. Then just inline splice the hollow tag end of the top shot into the main hollow off the reel. Pre made inline connection. 🤙🏾

    Who wants 2 big loops with 4 legs? Ugh. With the loop off the reel. Reused again and again off the reel
     
    Steve K
    Steve K
    I can honestly attest to that part about Min and his buddy drinking after dinner. They have a procedure, a plan. And it has nothing to do with the fishing! ;)
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