gillnets

In faver of gillnets?


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fishinden

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Nov 6, 2010
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Dennis
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Definitely not saying they don’t contribute in some ways, just the funding stream that fishing license is not funding hatchery programs...
If we have the political will to ban gillnets, we might not even need hatcheries. Look at the humpies, and chums. The last SELF- SUSTAINING healthy salmon. Some how they found a way to spawn,survive warm water, flood and drought,even flourishing. Smarter? I don't think so, they will eat anything pink. even lead or plastic! But they won't survive gillnets,for very long.
 
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Kitsap Fish hunter

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Sep 1, 2016
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If we have the political will to ban gillnets, we might not even need hatcheries. Look at the humpies, and chums. The last SELF- SUSTAINING healthy salmon. Some how they found a way to spawn,survive warm water, flood and drought,even flourishing. Smarter? I don't think so, they will eat anything pink. even lead or plastic! But they won't survive gillnets,for very long.
In the 1970's, Chambers creek was a chinook destination for PS angleres, they were getting 300,000 chinook . After the tribes netted it for years, they basically wiped it out. Now there are 458 chinook that return.....Banning gillnets is the only real solution.
 
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Hunter Dan

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Jun 30, 2011
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It seems to me everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room, Tribal gill nets...In 2016 PSA led the protest in LaConner while the tribe was conducting a gill net fishery. Now PSA is buying and promoting the tribal smoke screen, habitat. You could spend billions of dollars to fix habitat, but it wouldn't help increase fish runs until you get the nets our of the rivers. Im not denying habitat is not part of the problem, we all know it is. I know how many law suits the State has lost against the tribe, but I don't see it getting fixed or better until the tribes acknowledge the problem their gill net have created.
I helped organize that protest on the bridge in La Conner. We were not protesting the method used that day, we were loudly protesting the broken NOF PFMC negotiation and permitting process under Section 7 of the ESA that let the tribe net spring Chinook while the state stakeholders were without a permit or seasons. Ultimately the whole deal was another big slap in the face from the feds to citizens of Washington State. We took part in the negotiation process in good faith, felt we were pressured into a corner and driven into a state of 'No Agreement' in a last ditch move to take a stand for our way of life and culture(s). Then the Bureau of Indian Affairs stepped in and permitted the tribal fishery, something that had never happened before. Suffice to say, the outrage was instant and deserved. Throughout the spring of 2016 every part of that fisheries debacle looked really, really bad. Woke a bunch of us up, including tribal leaders. In fact, I truly believe it was so bad that those incidents were what opened the door to Ron's relationship building with tribal leaders. As a child of the seventies, I grew up hating Boldt, hating nets, hate and blame and finger pointing. Not once did any of that get anglers more fishing time or more fish. Not fucking once! It is far past time to work together.
 
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LJB

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Jan 18, 2013
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ain't no cunthead
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In the 1970's, Chambers creek was a chinook destination for PS angleres, they were getting 300,000 chinook . After the tribes netted it for years, they basically wiped it out. Now there are 458 chinook that return.....Banning gillnets is the only real solution.
There is a lot more to this story..
 
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ericwa285

How do you think I got this way
Dec 8, 2014
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Well hell here is my two cents.
There is not a one size fits all solution. the CR. Might need Gill nets for hatchery management but I don't think the Skagit dose. I don't have a problem with Gill nets I do have a problem with gillnets In the rivers. Move them out into open water and give the fish a chance.
Getting along is the best answer for all users, The tribes want more fish, the commercials want more fish,and the orcas need to eat. these interests will help the sports fishermen and have way more political power.
It's time to deal with the fur bags and spool up the hatcheries. Manage the rivers to capacity.
Alaska seems to be able to make this happen the Bristol bay giilnet fleet is 1600 boats the five Major river systems have been managed to create the biggest red salmon run in the world this run in it's natural state was something like 3 million fish now it's pushing something like fourteen.
It took gillnets to get there.
And there is no tribal fishing everyone commercial fishes together.
 
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goatram

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  • Apr 3, 2008
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    This thread is hard to follow.... and demonstrates the chaos of sporties. I thought we were talking about the CR. However......... I think everyone undervalues both pink and chums.
    I’m sure that the no water in the rivers and bath tub temperatures...... didn’t have a thing to do with small return of pinks...... oh wait..... they told us it would when it was happening.....
    This thread is hard to follow.... and demonstrates the chaos of sporties. I thought we were talking about the CR. However......... I think everyone undervalues both pink and chums.

    Back in the day 80's the state let the commies come in and they wiped the Puget sound clear of structure. Dragged the bottom looking for rockfish and true cod. The fish stocks crashed. Restrictions on true cod and now rock fish was the results.

    Now 10 years or so the state let the purse seiners in for the Chum and pinks to harvest them for the Roe. They were stripped and dumped back in dead. That fall sporties started talking about the lack of fish in the rivers.

    There is no hatcheries for those two species of salmon. None forecasted to start
    To harvest fish eggs for Asia! Fuck them! Those two species do provide food for the rivers and enjoyment for River guys. Just like the Blue Fin Tuna on the east coast. Just say no!

    I will say there Used to be market hunters till they killed all of the deer and waterfowl on the easy coast. Commies need to go out in deep water to fish. Change is coming.
     
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    fishnazzi

    Mostly just LURKING anymore...........
    Feb 24, 2008
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    Which one.............
    Back in the day 80's the state let the commies come in and they wiped the Puget sound clear of structure. Dragged the bottom looking for rockfish and true cod. The fish stocks crashed. Restrictions on true cod and now rock fish was the results.

    Now 10 years or so the state let the purse seiners in for the Chum and pinks to harvest them for the Roe. They were stripped and dumped back in dead. That fall sporties started talking about the lack of fish in the rivers.

    There is no hatcheries for those two species of salmon. None forecasted to start
    To harvest fish eggs for Asia! Fuck them! Those two species do provide food for the rivers and enjoyment for River guys. Just like the Blue Fin Tuna on the east coast. Just say no!

    I will say there Used to be market hunters till they killed all of the deer and waterfowl on the easy coast. Commies need to go out in deep water to fish. Change is coming.
    Purse seiners in the Sound have always been there. Sadly the only place drum seiners are allowed to fish salmon. It is much bigger nets and faster then what is allowed in Alaska. They have always allowed them to fish chum and pinks. However my GUESS is they(the state) have allowed them to catch more. The “escapement “ program truly needs to be changed. I expect that the change that is coming will make no one happy. The problem is that it will most likely come to late. The plus side this year the snow pac and weather conditions are more traditional....... have to wait and see if the cooler water prevails this summer. If it does ...... perfect year for it.
     
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    fishnazzi

    Mostly just LURKING anymore...........
    Feb 24, 2008
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    Which one.............
    This article explains the disfunction of the tribal system so well. From the “permit” process to the tribal courts..... and the WA state court system when dealing with tribal law breakers. The guy plead guilty got nothing... no fines and no jail time..... and this will continue even if non tribal nets are removed...... only a fool would believe otherwise.......
    https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/new...-faces-felony-fishing-puget-sound/3189516002/
     
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    koopa

    Arima Adventures
    Feb 3, 2018
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    Troy, what’s really foolish and downright delusional is saying that something is disfuctional and then completely ignoring that issue as part of a solution.

    I believe now more than ever is time to unite and make the public aware about the tribes exploitation of chinook salmon. From over-fishing, corking off of rivers, killing of endangered will fish, etc. All in the name of subsistence as their catch is sold via road side or Craigslist.

    When it time to demand the Tribes play by the rules. Do we wait until there are no chinook left (Like what happened with Dungess crab in the south sound). Allowing monitors in to allow wdfw to count how many fish tribes are taking would go a long way with me. I can think of many other things we should be demanding from the tribes that would assure tribal compliance with state laws.

    When is time that the tribes start paying there fair share for hatchery prduction—now that there are no fish left. Do we wait until the casino’s become a trillion dollar economy (it in the ten billion range currently). The tribes are heavily dependent on renemue from gambling, not so much from fishing. Political pressure used right could help and ensure the state has money for hatchery production. Many states are signing compacts asking for up to 7% of tribal gaming revenues. WA state has a contribution system that gives money from tribes to non-profits but not at a set percentage.

    From 38 years in PS my perspective is the tribes have operated unabetted on all fronts, which along with other factors have lead to our current situation.

    We can all whine how there is not enough fish and how we need more hatcheries and less seals/sea lions, but if you don’t address the gorilla in the room; we will just end up right back where we are now—that’s forsure.
     
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    G-Spot

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  • Mar 14, 2008
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    Troy, what’s really foolish and downright delusional is saying that something is disfuctional and then completely ignoring that issue as part of a solution.

    I believe now more than ever is time to unite and make the public aware about the tribes exploitation of chinook salmon. From over-fishing, corking off of rivers, killing of endangered will fish, etc. All in the name of subsistence as their catch is sold via road side or Craigslist.

    When it time to demand the Tribes play by the rules. Do we wait until there are no chinook left (Like what happened with Dungess crab in the south sound). Allowing monitors in to allow wdfw to count how many fish tribes are taking would go a long way with me. I can think of many other things we should be demanding from the tribes that would assure tribal compliance with state laws.

    When is time that the tribes start paying there fair share for hatchery prduction—now that there are no fish left. Do we wait until the casino’s become a trillion dollar economy (it in the ten billion range currently). The tribes are heavily dependent on renemue from gambling, not so much from fishing. Political pressure used right could help and ensure the state has money for hatchery production. Many states are signing compacts asking for up to 7% of tribal gaming revenues. WA state has a contribution system that gives money from tribes to non-profits but not at a set percentage.

    From 38 years in PS my perspective is the tribes have operated unabetted on all fronts, which along with other factors have lead to our current situation.

    We can all whine how there is not enough fish and how we need more hatcheries and less seals/sea lions, but if you don’t address the gorilla in the room; we will just end up right back where we are now—that’s forsure.

    I think you are totally correct as far as the tribes strain on the system. A public education campaign would probably do nothing, because many are already aware.

    I think what Troy was saying is the likelihood of actually changing the policy is very small if at all. When the state has attempted they sue in federal court and win..... subsistence in many peoples mind was for their own food within their tribal communities, the feds have ruled that selling on Craigslist and along the road is subsistence, because they use the money to pay bills and it is much like when they used to trade goods with settlers.

    The sovereign component of punishment is not isolated to tribes, we have Chinese ships poaching tons of salmon and we don’t have resources to even stop it. If on a rare occasion we do catch a foreign ship we turn them back over to their own government, which will probably do nothing..

    What you or I may think is abuse of their rights has been deemed not abuse by the courts. The people cannot change that.

    It would be great to allow them all the rights they had without any technology like motors, cars, trucks, hydraulic winches, etc... That might balance out some of the fairness and make it harder for them to have as big of an impact on hunting and fishing.... Just a thought...
     
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    Odin7

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    Apr 19, 2008
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    I think you are totally correct as far as the tribes strain on the system. A public education campaign would probably do nothing, because many are already aware.

    I think what Troy was saying is the likelihood of actually changing the policy is very small if at all. When the state has attempted they sue in federal court and win..... subsistence in many peoples mind was for their own food within their tribal communities, the feds have ruled that selling on Craigslist and along the road is subsistence, because they use the money to pay bills and it is much like when they used to trade goods with settlers.

    The sovereign component of punishment is not isolated to tribes, we have Chinese ships poaching tons of salmon and we don’t have resources to even stop it. If on a rare occasion we do catch a foreign ship we turn them back over to their own government, which will probably do nothing..

    What you or I may think is abuse of their rights has been deemed not abuse by the courts. The people cannot change that.

    It would be great to allow them all the rights they had without any technology like motors, cars, trucks, hydraulic winches, etc... That might balance out some of the fairness and make it harder for them to have as big of an impact on hunting and fishing.... Just a thought...

    Anything is possible!

    When I was a kid, a boy was a boy. Today? A boy can be a girl, use the female locker room at the Y, beat all the by birth female athletes on the track and then get their college scholarships! Even the famous gay female tennis star will suffer a bully beat down if she says there is something wrong with that picture.

    And if that ain't amazing enough, a woman can have an adadictomy performed, marry another woman and adopt a child!

    Over four decades since the Boldt Decision, a lot of things that were sacred no longer are. Even a right given to ALL Americans (The Second Amendment) is under strong pressure by a large and loud contingent to modify or even eliminate it from the Constitution.

    If they (the Left) want to entertain that conversation along with so many others, they have to be open to all conversations.

    There strongest argument is that the world changes and all those who live here must change with it. Time to hold them to their values.
     
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    G-Spot

    Captain
  • Mar 14, 2008
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    Anything is possible!

    When I was a kid, a boy was a boy. Today? A boy can be a girl, use the female locker room at the Y, beat all the by birth female athletes on the track and then get their college scholarships! Even the famous gay female tennis star will suffer a bully beat down if she says there is something wrong with that picture.

    And if that ain't amazing enough, a woman can have an adadictomy performed, marry another woman and adopt a child!

    Over four decades since the Boldt Decision, a lot of things that were sacred no longer are. Even a right given to ALL Americans (The Second Amendment) is under strong pressure by a large and loud contingent to modify or even eliminate it from the Constitution.

    If they (the Left) want to entertain that conversation along with so many others, they have to be open to all conversations.

    There strongest argument is that the world changes and all those who live here must change with it. Time to hold them to their values.

    I totally agree and definitely not saying it won’t change someday.... I was more or less stating that I understood what Troy was saying.... It doesn’t mean you stop trying, but it won’t be a quick change....
     
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