Get busted by fishing police on 14 miles bank Socal

mullet

Metal Fabricator
Jan 10, 2006
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They don't enforce by the contour lines they enforce by waypoints . You can be in a legal depth and still be outside the contour lines . The boundaries are on a line from waypoint to waypoint .
 
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stuman

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Sep 18, 2004
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jackyaochina

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Nov 20, 2020
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Pursuit 26

mike carson

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jan 18, 2007
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mike
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17ft bayrunner
I have been checked by wardens, and twice did not have my license with me, however I had a picture of my license in my cell phone, and that was good enough for the sea police. So take a pic of your license!!!
 

nefarious235

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One of the reel is electric, we just got it, it's easy to use. Sometimes it's better to use the manual one, you get more feeling about fishing. So we switched it between us.
They show up about 11 am, it became foggy around 9 am and maybe that's why they were out? Not sure.
We really don't know the fathom line thing until the cop explained to us.
People here may be fishing for a long time and knows all in and out?
But it's really not easy for us to be clear about all the detail regulations about each type of the fish. I mean the fathom line is not even showing on the MPA map.
Anyway it's not an excuse of not knowing a rule, so as I drove the boat I'm paying for all my friend's fines whatever it comes up with.
I think some people here are a bit harsh, I know it's against rule or law, but it's not like robbery or other things that make one person really a bad guy. I talked to one of the guy in Island Fuels who deal with fishers all the time and he hasn't ever heard about the rule.
I think we would like to experience the court, telling the truth and see how it goes.
Anyway, all of these has been a good way to learn about the culture here.

There are kinder and meaner people anywhere, it doesn't bother me much.
All the trash talk and mean gestures defines more about the person who said it.

Got a picture of your boat? I'll stop and say Hello.
 

MYNomad

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Dec 12, 2007
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They don't enforce by the contour lines they enforce by waypoints . You can be in a legal depth and still be outside the contour lines . The boundaries are on a line from waypoint to waypoint .
If you are talking about MLPAs, you may be right, I don't know. But if you are talking about RF depth limits, I think you are wrong. If you are deeper than 450, you are in trouble. If you are in less than 450 feet, but at an offshore highpoint, they enforce without trying to figure out how far from the 75 fathom line you are.
 

gettingbentwithbo

Get Bent!
Mar 7, 2009
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Try telling the judge you didn't see any signs posted anywhere.
 

Azarkon

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Aug 28, 2015
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He doesn't have to plead dipshit, he is one.

Once you got your license you understood there were regulations to follow, hence "license". Read up and follow the regulations instead of doing what you want and, "I got caught" attitude. You fishing the 14 for rockfish looks bad on all of us. Sport fishing is exactly that, a sport. This isn't harvest what you want where you want rules be damned until you are caught.

Enjoy the $4400 lesson (I wish he would have popped you for the full dollar amount or $16,000-$20,000). I hope those were the best "quality" rockfish you ever ate. Should taste about like $7800 in pre-tax dollars! Yum!
This is funny to hear because last time this topic was brought up here about the 75 fathom line we had people who’ve been fishing for years saying “no official definition of what’s an off shore bank means the law’s easy to dispute in court!” The law is ambiguous to the extreme because it actually says “sea ward of the 75 or 40 fathoms contour of the main land or islands or” - get this - “certain off shore banks.” Which includes the Tanner and the Cortez which is why you see party boats hitting them for rock fish at the end of tuna trips.

Why is the 14 miles off limits but Tanner and Cortez are not? Nobody fucking knows but the theory is that it’s because the latter are in the cow protection zone which is even more hilarious because that zone is supposed to protect rock fish more, yet the only off shore banks you are legally allowed to fish are the two most famous off shore banks in the cow protection zone!
 
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effigy

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Jul 18, 2007
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Which one? Too many....
If you are talking about MLPAs, you may be right, I don't know. But if you are talking about RF depth limits, I think you are wrong. If you are deeper than 450, you are in trouble. If you are in less than 450 feet, but at an offshore highpoint, they enforce without trying to figure out how far from the 75 fathom line you are.
Actually, Mullet is correct. The federally managed fishery depth restrictions use waypoints to define the lines, for the entire west coast. It’s in the CFRs.

Refer to this:


And go to 660.72 to find the 50 through 75 fathom lines


This section

Spells out the season and depth restrictions for the different (N/S) areas of the west coast

I’ve spent hours entering these into plotters & handheld gps. I Make them into a route, so it shows up as a line on the plotter.

Some of the newer plotters / chips have these pre-programmed in.

Think about it.....how could it possibly be based on the depth shown by a Fathometer? You have variations of tide swing, and even depth of the transducer.

The lines drawn by waypoints are approximations. Where the actual depth is a straight line, it closely follows the fathom curves on chart. But where you get canyons / curves, you can have spots that are deeper than say 40 fathoms that are slightly inside of the 40f regulatory line and are legal, and conversely spots that are shallower than 40f which are outside the 40f reg line.
 

Azarkon

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Aug 28, 2015
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The real question is - have you ever seen a warden try to enforce the way points?

Catching people at the 14 is easy. If you're there and you have rock fish, you're guilty.

Catching people violating a way point line is *much* harder. All sorts of evidence you have to show. Dude can argue that his chart plot shows he's inside the line. You have to show that your radar caught him outside of it. What if your radar is not precise? What if he drifted past the line while pulling up a rock fish caught from inside the line?

Most people are smart enough to not fish on the edge of a way point line when they see a giant fish and game radar boat. But if you caught them from beyond the horizon using radar, how do you know they were fishing when your radar found them outside the line?

The only people I ever saw get busted for fishing too deep was a party boat doing 240 feet back when the limit was 120. That was probably based on a tip as I don't think fish and game just happened to be at San Nicholas island the day the boat got caught.
 
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MYNomad

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Actually, Mullet is correct. The federally managed fishery depth restrictions use waypoints to define the lines, for the entire west coast. It’s in the CFRs.

Refer to this:


And go to 660.72 to find the 50 through 75 fathom lines


This section

Spells out the season and depth restrictions for the different (N/S) areas of the west coast

I’ve spent hours entering these into plotters & handheld gps. I Make them into a route, so it shows up as a line on the plotter.

Some of the newer plotters / chips have these pre-programmed in.

Think about it.....how could it possibly be based on the depth shown by a Fathometer? You have variations of tide swing, and even depth of the transducer.

The lines drawn by waypoints are approximations. Where the actual depth is a straight line, it closely follows the fathom curves on chart. But where you get canyons / curves, you can have spots that are deeper than say 40 fathoms that are slightly inside of the 40f regulatory line and are legal, and conversely spots that are shallower than 40f which are outside the 40f reg line.
I was questioning their method of enforcement (not legal definitions) and, on the basis of direct conversations with various wardens, stand by my comments.
 

effigy

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Jul 18, 2007
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Which one? Too many....
I was questioning their method of enforcement (not legal definitions) and, on the basis of direct conversations with various wardens, stand by my comments.
Ah...understood.

I can’t speak for the wardens in the region in question. But I can tell you in N Cal and OR, they typically position the enforcement vessel next to the suspect in order to confirm the location (outside the boundary) and cite them (usually boarding them, if safe).They will also get help on occasion from the CG helicopter, flying above the suspect and confirming the location.

However if one one is cited for fishing outside the regulatory line, and they were actually inside the regulatory line and have evidence (their plotter track, etc) then they have a good defense.
 
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MYNomad

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Ah...understood.

I can’t speak for the wardens in the region in question. But I can tell you in N Cal and OR, they typically position the enforcement vessel next to the suspect in order to confirm the location (outside the boundary) and cite them (usually boarding them, if safe).
I think the enforcement techniques are different for MLPAs and the like vs offshore rock fishing. With a highspot in the middle of nowhere, boundaries aren't too important. You are miles from the 60 (no 75) fathom line (that is along the coast and islands), so if you are fishing with rf aboard the exact position is immaterial.
 
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jiggermyster

Goin' out...
Dec 12, 2003
328
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Ah...understood.

I can’t speak for the wardens in the region in question. But I can tell you in N Cal and OR, they typically position the enforcement vessel next to the suspect in order to confirm the location (outside the boundary) and cite them (usually boarding them, if safe).They will also get help on occasion from the CG helicopter, flying above the suspect and confirming the location.
...
That's seven or eight grand to write a ticket.
Yikes.
 

SovietBear

Toxically Masculine
May 6, 2014
113
70
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Anon
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..
This is funny to hear because last time this topic was brought up here about the 75 fathom line we had people who’ve been fishing for years saying “no official definition of what’s an off shore bank means the law’s easy to dispute in court!” The law is ambiguous to the extreme because it actually says “sea ward of the 75 or 40 fathoms contour of the main land or islands or” - get this - “certain off shore banks.” Which includes the Tanner and the Cortez which is why you see party boats hitting them for rock fish at the end of tuna trips.

Why is the 14 miles off limits but Tanner and Cortez are not? Nobody fucking knows but the theory is that it’s because the latter are in the cow protection zone which is even more hilarious because that zone is supposed to protect rock fish more, yet the only off shore banks you are legally allowed to fish are the two most famous off shore banks in the cow protection zone!
I'd bring this up in court, you may get some leniency. The law is retarded. California is retarded.
 

Gil Marlin

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Nov 27, 2003
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Just when I thought I knew which fish I could catch, they changed the legal length, then the time of year, now they added a new depth restriction not to mention all the MLPA areas. I read the list of rock fish and there are fish on the list I've never heard of, not to mention the other 70 types they don't even list. I can't understand most of what's printed in the DFG guide and English is my first language. :D
 

Yellowtail Dan

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Apr 10, 2006
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Your Honor. This law is retarded. Cali is retarded. In fact, you are.....
Bailiff....... click click. :rofl:
i would find out the judges political affiliations before I used this one. It might work if he isn’t a democrat
 

MYNomad

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Well, if I was a judge I would give some deference to those with original and entertaining excuses.
That's justice for you. Probably cute girls with big ... personalities also get favoritism. And people with skin color that matches yours. Sorry. Justice needs to be blind -- just like in the statue of Lady Justice, unless the libtards have torn it down.
 
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MYNomad

Heading South
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They don't enforce by the contour lines they enforce by waypoints . You can be in a legal depth and still be outside the contour lines . The boundaries are on a line from waypoint to waypoint .
He was miles from any waypoint, too. Kind of like fishing a protected area in Point Loma and saying "prove I wasn't in Mexico -- I identify with being in Mexico".
 

stanky1

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Sep 11, 2009
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That's justice for you. Probably cute girls with big ... personalities also get favoritism. And people with skin color that matches yours. Sorry. Justice needs to be blind -- just like in the statue of Lady Justice, unless the libtards have torn it down.
I was joking, of course, but there are so many activist judges these days that it is hard to take our legal system serious anymore. While the statue of Lady Liberty may stand, the libtards have effectively already torn it down IMHO.
 
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nefarious235

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I think the enforcement techniques are different for MLPAs and the like vs offshore rock fishing. With a highspot in the middle of nowhere, boundaries aren't too important. You are miles from the 60 (no 75) fathom line (that is along the coast and islands), so if you are fishing with rf aboard the exact position is immaterial.
MyNomad is always point on. These people were warned by fellow fisherman that morning that they were taking RF in the RF closed area. They told us to pound sand, So we took their photo, and informed the DFW via phone, they were there within the hour from the anchorage they were in at Catalina and wrote these people a TICKET. DFW checked us afterwards in a very professional manner as always.
CalTip works. There, now I feel better
 
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cksea

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Apr 16, 2005
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but that's federal water. state regs dont apply until you attempt to bring that fish into a ca port,