Fuel Surcharges

LagunaTuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 1, 2012
131
4
Laguna Niguel
Name
Skip
Boat
Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
SHUT UP YOU INFIDELS!!!!

- Arab Sheik likes this
Now that is funny!

But let us not overlook that many love and are devoted to their fearless leader so they personally strive on no matter how one sided the rules are...
 

carcass

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 25, 2009
760
326
Cedar City Utah
Name
scott
Boat
None
Bottom line is that we want to go long range fishing. You vote with your wallet. If all inclusive doesn't phase you, then no worries. If you do, then you have options. Isn't it great that you have the option either/or, or would you rather some non-elected group make you do it one way or the other?

I bet a lot of LR anglers have enough funds that it isn't harming their family needs. If you are paying $2500-4500 for a LR trip, just budget another 100-200 bucks. Heck, you can probably save that much by reducing your extraneous driving for a couple months. Then take your anger out on the fish.

If there is no surcharge, then you have money available for the processors or even tip.
 

parttimer

Newbie
Jul 2, 2012
6
0
Long Beach, CA USA
Name
Richard Leigh
Boat
none
Just heard the latest - Royal Polaris and Shogun are not charging any surcharges. I guess this might be old news but wasn't aware. I've got a trip in the fall and was worried about the extra amount. It was passed on by one of the managers at Fisherman's Landing...great news.
 

Anello

Giddy Up!!!
Apr 9, 2003
801
70
SD, CA.
Name
Dan
Boat
No
Just heard the latest - Royal Polaris and Shogun are not charging any surcharges. I guess this might be old news but wasn't aware. I've got a trip in the fall and was worried about the extra amount. It was passed on by one of the managers at Fisherman's Landing...great news.
Sweet. Great Boats there, too.

I have no problem with the guys on the boats making some extra money on "fuel surcharges", really, assuming that they call it what it is (a "Boat Tip"). Figure that you are spending $380 or so per day on a boat, then a fuel surcharge is only about a 5% increase, albeit in cash. I only really have experience in my business, but for camparison's sake, we are essentially held hostage with 3-5% profit margins these days when bidding projects. So, when I see added costs in that range from boats, or hunts, or anything for that matter I get a little pissed.

I suppose, more than anything, I just want to be able to charge those myself, in cash, and only AFTER the bid has been accepted. I will call it a "Materials and Benefits Surcharge" to cover any additional materials or Insurance cost increases that we incurr over the life of the project. My business needs this to survive! This whole concept of "Fuel Surcharges" gets very ridiculous when applied to regular businesses, doesn't it?

Just saying...

I only read like 3 pages of this post prior to posting this, so don't torch me if this has already been discussed.
 

wils

lazy-ass well known "member"
May 31, 2003
8,995
5,275
not a spoiled bitch from san diego
Name
bill
Boat
I hate boats
Sweet. Great Boats there, too.

I have no problem with the guys on the boats making some extra money on "fuel surcharges", really, assuming that they call it what it is (a "Boat Tip"). Figure that you are spending $380 or so per day on a boat, then a fuel surcharge is only about a 5% increase, albeit in cash. I only really have experience in my business, but for camparison's sake, we are essentially held hostage with 3-5% profit margins these days when bidding projects. So, when I see added costs in that range from boats, or hunts, or anything for that matter I get a little pissed.

I suppose, more than anything, I just want to be able to charge those myself, in cash, and only AFTER the bid has been accepted. I will call it a "Materials and Benefits Surcharge" to cover any additional materials or Insurance cost increases that we incurr over the life of the project. My business needs this to survive! This whole concept of "Fuel Surcharges" gets very ridiculous when applied to regular businesses, doesn't it?

Just saying...

I only read like 3 pages of this post prior to posting this, so don't torch me if this has already been discussed.
"Job:Construction Mgmt."
fuel surcharges have been around construction for a long time now - from concrete trucks to roll-off containers to lumber/materials delivery to roofing materials - well documented on their invoices. How is it that management hasn't heard about it?
 

BFT#225-Sashimi

Raw Mo Bettah
Aug 2, 2008
303
85
Fallbrook, Ca. USA
Name
Glennihana
Boat
24
No I don't think there is a conspiracy Steve....just curious what the formula is.

Royal Star Website!

NOTE:

  • Based on fuel price of $2.75/gal.
  • As unpredictable fluctuations in diesel fuel costs impact our price models, we believe in the fairest practice possible when it is necessary to surcharge Royal Star customers. A base price of $2.75 per gallon is included in all published fares. Any substantial increase in fuel cost will be calculated and added to fares using the following formula: price increase x estimated fuel usage during voyage divided by the number of anglers and length of voyage. Calculations will be based on each individual load of diesel purchased when surcharges are necessary.
BFT 225
 

aragorn829

Member
Aug 5, 2009
33
3
San Diego, CA
Name
Justin
Boat
none
Just heard the latest - Royal Polaris and Shogun are not charging any surcharges. I guess this might be old news but wasn't aware. I've got a trip in the fall and was worried about the extra amount. It was passed on by one of the managers at Fisherman's Landing...great news.
There are only 2 managers at Fisherman's Landing and neither of us said anything about fuel surcharges to anyone. Sorry but I think you got bad information. If you have any questions please call the Landing 619-221-8500 and ask for Justin or Andrew. Thanks.
 

Anello

Giddy Up!!!
Apr 9, 2003
801
70
SD, CA.
Name
Dan
Boat
No
"Job:Construction Mgmt."
fuel surcharges have been around construction for a long time now - from concrete trucks to roll-off containers to lumber/materials delivery to roofing materials - well documented on their invoices. How is it that management hasn't heard about it?
We don't pay them in cash...and they are most times disclosed up front as part of the cost. Thats the point.
 

fishdoggary

I do what I want Bitch!
Aug 23, 2007
1,087
1,093
65
Huntington Beach, CA
Name
Gary
Boat
Intrepid
Bottom Line:

Fuel surcharges are a load of crap. The price of fuel has been continually going up and up and then down a little for years and what do you do?

You raise your prices accordingly to meet the costs of fuel, insurance, groceries, maintenance, equipment ect.

We do a company budget twice a year and raise or lower prices accordingly to meet demands.

I did notice the cost of the same trip on the Intrepid last year was more money this year but that is the cost of doing business.

We were getting those same additional fuel surcharge costs from suppliers and vendors and we asked for a complete breakdown of the additional fuel surcharges and proof of the cost before we would pay it. In other words we wanted to know just how much the additional cost of fuel was to the job site or our yard and what the cost was based on. Most companies couldn't provide that they were just tacking on $30.00 to $200.00 and expecting us to pay.

Whats next food surcharges, bait surcharges... Please

The fact is cost of operations are going up reflect it in your costs not when you get on the boat.
 

wils

lazy-ass well known "member"
May 31, 2003
8,995
5,275
not a spoiled bitch from san diego
Name
bill
Boat
I hate boats
We don't pay them in cash...and they are most times disclosed up front as part of the cost. Thats the point.
"most times"; not "all times".

short: cash is hard to tax; checks are easy to tax. that tax then gets passed on to the end-user - we fishermen, thank you all very much.

little more:
construction suppliers trade you your check for one of their "preliminary notice to the owner". boat owners cant do that cost-effectively. How many bad checks do you realistically foresee the boat owners holding by the end of each season? the only cost-effective remedy is to transfer those losses on to next seasons pricing.

construction is regulated by state agencies; sport fishing is not - at least not in the same manner/degree. if it were, can you imagine how much more each trip would cost? govt oversight and IRS-style accounting are players in why construction costs continue to rise. add in projected max fuel costs and watch how much trips increase and how quickly everybody would then wish for "the old days".

as the saying goes: "beware what you wish for."

so which agency would you prefer over-seeing fishy-things?
the current godfather agency?
or some new government agency?
 

stairman

......
May 16, 2009
5,166
3,136
ramona /ca/usa
Name
doug
Boat
yak and lowe duck hunting skiff but they identify as sportfishing crusiers
In the interests of both you and the customers, I think you as boat owners need to come up with a uniform system if you are going to continue to use fuel surcharges.

here is what I suggest.....
print your shedule and in it base the trip cost on what ever the cost of fuel is at the time of printing....then tell us exactly what you will charge us for exactly what price increase from the day the schedule was printed.
Otherwise it will seem that you are just feather bedding....we all want you to be there when the time comes for us to schedule a trip....and while the surcharges are small compared to the trip costs.....being above decks with the information keeps your customers from feeling like we are making up you profit margin on trips that don't fill or for other business costs.
if some boats are doing 12/day for surcharges and you get on a boat that is doing 20.....you kinda feel like they are reaching into your pocket.
The first boat to use this will get my business when and if this gd recession is over and I have money to commit to a trip.kudos to who ever does...proves you care.
 

stairman

......
May 16, 2009
5,166
3,136
ramona /ca/usa
Name
doug
Boat
yak and lowe duck hunting skiff but they identify as sportfishing crusiers
"most times"; not "all times".

short: cash is hard to tax; checks are easy to tax. that tax then gets passed on to the end-user - we fishermen, thank you all very much.

little more:
construction suppliers trade you your check for one of their "preliminary notice to the owner". boat owners cant do that cost-effectively. How many bad checks do you realistically foresee the boat owners holding by the end of each season? the only cost-effective remedy is to transfer those losses on to next seasons pricing.

construction is regulated by state agencies; sport fishing is not - at least not in the same manner/degree. if it were, can you imagine how much more each trip would cost? govt oversight and IRS-style accounting are players in why construction costs continue to rise. add in projected max fuel costs and watch how much trips increase and how quickly everybody would then wish for "the old days".

as the saying goes: "beware what you wish for."

so which agency would you prefer over-seeing fishy-things?
the current godfather agency?
or some new government agency?

how about none?
 

stairman

......
May 16, 2009
5,166
3,136
ramona /ca/usa
Name
doug
Boat
yak and lowe duck hunting skiff but they identify as sportfishing crusiers
Royal Star Website!

NOTE:

  • Based on fuel price of $2.75/gal.
  • As unpredictable fluctuations in diesel fuel costs impact our price models, we believe in the fairest practice possible when it is necessary to surcharge Royal Star customers. A base price of $2.75 per gallon is included in all published fares. Any substantial increase in fuel cost will be calculated and added to fares using the following formula: price increase x estimated fuel usage during voyage divided by the number of anglers and length of voyage. Calculations will be based on each individual load of diesel purchased when surcharges are necessary.
BFT 225
perfect!(guess i should have read the whole thread first before I posted on page 11)
 

maxwell19

Newbie
May 9, 2006
2
0
47
Anaheim
Name
Ron
Boat
Any
I apologize ahead of time for being long winded but many years watching this industry has led me to a few conclusions, or at best, observations.

When a trip is based on $2.75/gallon (or whatever the stated price), the whole idea is to predict expenses and then create a price point that provides a profit margin (I think these are 'for profit' businesses). The majority of expenses as they relate to these trips are predictable. The one that is not (and that can vary exceedingly) is the cost of fuel. Simple math shows that the profit margin on a fishing trip is thin. That being the case, one of the few defenders against going backwards in the event of an unpredicted fuel spike is to implement a surcharge. It's ridiculous to think a business would hand back money if the price of fuel drops as that is the profit and one of the few times a boat owner can make some headway. It's the same as demanding a refund if there is wide open tuna fishing 50 miles form home instead of 100 - sometimes things favor the business owner and sometimes they favor the consumer. A fuel surcharge is basically a way for a business to say that we can continue to operate if fuel (or any roving expense for that matter) remains static, but if not, we need to reserve the right to increase our prices. If a business is up front with their policy and bases their pricing on realistic market levels then I feel a surcharge is acceptable. Most of these boats appear to base their surcharge on $3/gallon which seems realistic. If it were based on $2/gallon I'd have to wonder. When a sport fishing boat can burn 800 gallons per day (not all but some) a rise in fuel (we saw fuel rise over $.50 a gallon a few seasons ago) could be catastrophic for a business that could conceivably burn 50,000 to 100,000 per year. Catastrophic to the point that it goes out of business.

Many sportfishing businesses are hanging be a thread at the moment and the unpredictable nature of fuel could be the death knoll if it were to suddenly inflate. The boats I've talked to use a formula like the Royal Star and with the current cost of fuel the per person charge is fairly low. When the formula is transparent and actually fluctuates with the price of fuel then I don't think there is much to argue about. If a boat charges $50/day when fuel is $3.89 and the same when it is $3.04 then there is reason to question it (or when a boat fuels up in Ensenada for $2.50 and then levies a surcharge based on US prices). The cost of goods and services in the real world today (ie: food, textiles, trucking, airlines etc.) changes on a daily basis which allows those businesses to remain competitive as costs (namely petroleum) fluctuate. The price of broccoli changes weekly and is due in large part to the cost of fuel to bring it to the store - that is, in essence their fuel surcharge. Fortunately, they have the luxury of changing their prices in a way that most of us accept. Most sportfishing boats publish their prices well in advance of the season (bearing in mind that in typical years fuel prices surge after Memorial Day) and have little recourse to deal with a change in expense once the season starts other than a surcharge. Don't forget that in these modern times, fuel is right up there with landing costs and bait costs as a primary expense. To not have a policy that insulates you from a drastic change in that expense is bad business.

If these guys were to operate based on many businesses in terms of supply and demand things would be different. You'd see really cheap trips when bookings are slow (like now with the average 1.5 day trip below what it was last June/July) and the prices jacked up when things got good. The market has spoken and as a result there are a lot of cheap trips available right now. When five boats go out and get a hit on Albacore, currently scheduled trips won't go up in price to meet the demand. At that point the price point really favors the consumer. More so if fuel prices drop and the surcharge goes away.

At the end of the day, 99% of sport boat owners aren't getting rich right now. They're doing what they can to make their way through tough times and hoping to be in business when things turn around. The good news is that at some point they will.
 

fishdoggary

I do what I want Bitch!
Aug 23, 2007
1,087
1,093
65
Huntington Beach, CA
Name
Gary
Boat
Intrepid
Ok we are anticipating burning 1,000 gallons of fuel on this eight day trip.

We thought fuel was going to cost us 2.75 per gallon, but now it is 3.00 per gallon so we are going to charge each passenger an additional $10.00 dollars per passenger assuming there are 25 passengers. And we will adjust costs accordingly if we burn less or more when we get to the fuel dock.

Or

We thought fuel was going to cost us 3.00 per gallon, but now it is 2.75 per gallon so we are going to refund each passenger an additional $10.00 dollars per passenger assuming there are 25 passengers.

Would this ever happen I don't think so. I'm sorry the whole fuel surcharge thing stinks. All good business projects yearly costs and adjusts accordingly.

Just sayin'
 

parttimer

Newbie
Jul 2, 2012
6
0
Long Beach, CA USA
Name
Richard Leigh
Boat
none
There are only 2 managers at Fisherman's Landing and neither of us said anything about fuel surcharges to anyone. Sorry but I think you got bad information. If you have any questions please call the Landing 619-221-8500 and ask for Justin or Andrew. Thanks.

Sorry - hopefully I didn't get it wrong. One of my buddies had a letter he said came from Captain Frank and the manager of Fisherman's Landing that was calling for an end to surcharges (we assumed it was for the Royal Polaris and Shogun based on what we were told).

He was going to pass it on tomorrow - I'll call the office when we get it to clarify...
 

Sactotuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 20, 2005
1,768
140
sacramento
Name
jim
Boat
Royal Star
"beware what you wish for."

so which agency would you prefer over-seeing fishy-things?
the current godfather agency?
or some new government agency?

I'll do it!!
My salary and a small staff, offices and expenses will be funded by, oh let's say $10/day surcharge on all fishing trips in America.
There, everything's settled.
"Overseer of fishy-things" . . . I like the sound of that.

Thought this thread really needed some humor at this point. :rolleyes:
 

LagunaTuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 1, 2012
131
4
Laguna Niguel
Name
Skip
Boat
Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
how about none?
How about the consumer overseeing their own expendatures with the simple practice of FULL DISCLOSURE... simple solution = "ALL INCLUSIVE" pricing ("actual" trip price disclosed upfront, transaction is clean, consumer protected, case closed).
 

LagunaTuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 1, 2012
131
4
Laguna Niguel
Name
Skip
Boat
Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
Bottom line is that we want to go long range fishing. You vote with your wallet. If all inclusive doesn't phase you, then no worries. If you do, then you have options. Isn't it great that you have the option either/or, or would you rather some non-elected group make you do it one way or the other?

I bet a lot of LR anglers have enough funds that it isn't harming their family needs. If you are paying $2500-4500 for a LR trip, just budget another 100-200 bucks. Heck, you can probably save that much by reducing your extraneous driving for a couple months. Then take your anger out on the fish.

If there is no surcharge, then you have money available for the processors or even tip.
As far as "all inclusive" priced long range trips out of SD, the Intrepid is the only option in the fleet at this time to my knowledge. Many anglers currently think they will pay more to fish the Intrepeid because their posted cost appears to be higher before one reads the fine print, but when you calculate all the add ons and "fuel surcharge" you end up paying at the last minute with the other SD operations (and they all seem to have different amounts based on a specific operator formula or ?, especially when it comes to "fuel surcharges"), then the Intrepid really does not cost that much more in the end, and you get peace of mind in knowing what the bottom line trip cost is at the time of booking, plus from what I hear and read the captains and crew are top notch, the food is as good or better than most of the premier SD boats, your galley tab is lower and perhaps zero for some with a free soda/ice/coffee station, and she is one of the newer, larger, faster, and best riding boats in the SD fleet so a slightly higher cost is most likely justified in this case.

Perhaps in some angler's minds, the ones doing their homework, the Intrepid just might be the "best" value overall in the SD fleet today rather than the highest cost. Never fished the boat myself, but I am liking the way the owner thinks and how he has chosen to operate his business in these tough times. From an investment standpoint the pricing makes a lot of sense to me based on the fact I know my trip cost going in, and then I look at the boat's proven fishing performance, the boat's ammenities, and the overall value is there when you calculate the "true" bottom line.

My hope is that several of the other premier SD boats go to an "all inclusive" pricing schedule, and even consider including a 15% crew tip as well, then they should advertise and brag like hell that the are making the decision process easier for everyone and the experience more hassle free for their devoted patrons and any and all newcomers.

And why can't the boat/landing offer angler trip insurance as well, the cost per individual would go down considerably if the SD boats/landings sold a specific trip policy at the time of booking, and then ordered those trip insurance polcies in bulk, this would help protect the operators as far as securing angler's multi thousand dollar deposits, and the anglers would get a value added benefit that many may not have even known was available, at a reasonable cost. If I can buy rental insurance per day on the spot when I rent a car, then I should be able to get trip insurance when I book my multi-day long range trip, I'm sure there is a quality, high rated insurance company out there that would love to have the business.

The long range industry is do for an updating and an overhaul when it comes to pricing (as in having an "actual" trip price posted rather than having a base price with unknown add ons and confusing surcharges), and with the collection procedure of hundreds of thousands of dollars in angler's deposits (as in insuring those monies so that they are safeguarded with full disclosure upfront), and in offering angler trip insurance at the time of booking (as in having an "in house" option that is affordable and protects anglers), JMO.

If others here agree that change is needed, don't be shy, ask your favorite long range operation about "all inclusive" pricing, ask them how your deposit funds are currently protected, ask them about trip insurance, and anything else that you feel would make your fishing trip more hassle free and protect your fishing investment. They are in the service business, they truly want you to go fishing, YOU are their lifeblood!

Ask enough times and you may recieve, don't ask and you may never know.
 

Anello

Giddy Up!!!
Apr 9, 2003
801
70
SD, CA.
Name
Dan
Boat
No
"most times"; not "all times".

short: cash is hard to tax; checks are easy to tax. that tax then gets passed on to the end-user - we fishermen, thank you all very much.

little more:
construction suppliers trade you your check for one of their "preliminary notice to the owner". boat owners cant do that cost-effectively. How many bad checks do you realistically foresee the boat owners holding by the end of each season? the only cost-effective remedy is to transfer those losses on to next seasons pricing.

construction is regulated by state agencies; sport fishing is not - at least not in the same manner/degree. if it were, can you imagine how much more each trip would cost? govt oversight and IRS-style accounting are players in why construction costs continue to rise. add in projected max fuel costs and watch how much trips increase and how quickly everybody would then wish for "the old days".

as the saying goes: "beware what you wish for."

so which agency would you prefer over-seeing fishy-things?
the current godfather agency?
or some new government agency?
Wow. Almost not worth posting anything on this site anymore.

Thanks for the lesson! I had no idea.
 

LagunaTuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 1, 2012
131
4
Laguna Niguel
Name
Skip
Boat
Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
Wow. Almost not worth posting anything on this site anymore.

Thanks for the lesson! I had no idea.

Let's hope there are no IRS employees that like to fish checking out BD


And we definitely need more "Godfather" type operations in this country, they have served THEIR familes well. Perhaps we should have Frank Gambino running the long range industry instead of Frank Lo Preste


Get real, this is 2012 and the government now has ownership in major banks, major auto manufactures, major insurance compaines and other major corporations, so welcome to "Socialism", protection of the masses, spread the wealth. The heavily armed folks making their own rules got wiped out by the those dudes with law degrees who fight and often steal with their briefcase full of documents rather than one filled with guns and ammo.
 

harddrive

Wish I Was Fishing!
Sep 9, 2004
1,982
803
West LA
Name
Min
Boat
None
This topic is good for discussion. This is a forum for us anglers to put our two cents in and maybe some of the people in the boating industry will read and what the anglers are saying.

For example, a while back a thread was started about fishing permit cost variation on the boats. Let's just say that some boats were really jacking up the prices.
 

Fishybuzz

fishybuzz
Apr 4, 2003
8,469
8,073
Tucson
Visit site
Name
David Tang
Boat
Intrepid
This topic is good for discussion. This is a forum for us anglers to put our two cents in and maybe some of the people in the boating industry will read and what the anglers are saying.

For example, a while back a thread was started about fishing permit cost variation on the boats. Let's just say that some boats were really jacking up the prices.
They as businesses can charge what they want....we as consumers can choose to pay or choose to go to a different business.

I have no problem with a operation that charges fuel surcharges, Mexican permit fees in excess of actual cost, $1.00 per soda it is their business.....but I choose not to ride those boats.....I ride the Intrepid for the precise reasons Laguna Tuna has stated.....great crew, always limited load( no more than 25) great food,best riding boat IMO, clean, excellent fish catching success and ALL inclusive pricing.

everyone has their favorite boat..... stick with them if you are happy with how they are run...

My only question for Laguna Tuna is why haven't you tried the Intrepid:rofl: