Fuel Surcharges

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by lowelld, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. ISLAND BOUND

    ISLAND BOUND Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Orange County
    Name:
    Mike
    Boat:
    26 striper White Knuckles
    • Messages:
      (1,987)
    • Likes Received:
      (130)
    Yep.. Around 45 cents a gallon less than clear. Same exact fuel with red dye added so if the IRS finds it in your on road tank you get a heavy fine.
     
  2. LagunaTuna

    LagunaTuna Newbie

    Location:
    Laguna Niguel
    Name:
    Skip
    Boat:
    Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
    • Messages:
      (131)
    • Likes Received:
      (4)
    Totally missing the point several times now, it's not about fuel costs and becoming an oil stock anaylist to determine your long range trip cost or even about which of the newer "value added" business minded boats had a soda fountain/ice dispenser/coffee station first.

    Stick with "house fixing", and book a fishing trip with a consumer protected credit card on whatever boat suits your needs financially based on YOUR desired service level.[​IMG]
     
  3. wils

    wils lazy-ass well known "member"

    Location:
    not a spoiled bitch from san diego
    Name:
    bill
    Boat:
    I hate boats
    • Messages:
      (8,813)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,864)
    I guess theres too much whining and tap dancing hiding the "point".

    figuring fuel surcharge is real easy: $25 a day. see how easy that is?
    no whining.
    no dancing.
    no telling someone else how to run their business.
    and no pretentious speaking for everybody else, too. ;)
     
  4. huntingdad

    huntingdad Newbie

    Location:
    camp verde az
    Name:
    kevin presmyk
    Boat:
    American Angler
    • Messages:
      (122)
    • Likes Received:
      (3)
    I don't see a $15-$20 a day charge right now. I just got off the AA from an 8 day that had $3 a day charge. I know they use a specific formula to calculate it and is fine with me. I trust them to be fair with us.
     
  5. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,344)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,661)
    Curious what is the formula??????.......
     
  6. redbeard

    redbeard Member

    Location:
    So. Calif.
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    someday
    • Messages:
      (257)
    • Likes Received:
      (132)
    You would think that would be easy to get information, us fisherman partaking in a contract, but yet we do not know the facts or basis.

    A contract with blanks is something we all know is wrong, bet yet we still hop on the bus.

    To answer the question from a "informed attitude" simply find out the engines and hp the the boat is running and check the website of the manufacture. Flowcharts are out there to tell you how much fuel is used at rated load and
    r.p.ms of there engine.

    But in the end does it really make a difference? If it did the next question should be who got a California subsidized grant for newer cleaner engines and should we as customers enjoy that benefit as in a lower cost trip? What about there competition that did not qualify for the grant, should we pay more those trips?

    Pick your trip, and boat, and just enjoy. Let them run there business as they see fit, and reward those with your dollars that are honest and forthright.
     
  7. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

    Location:
    Bishop
    Name:
    Steve
    Boat:
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    • Messages:
      (10,902)
    • Likes Received:
      (5,975)
    Please take a look at Islander Sportfishing for an explanation. Similar with the Angler but with a different daily average fuel burn. There's a "Fuel Surcharge Letter" on Islander's website.

    Why do different boats charge different fuel surcharges? Because they can. One boat has two engines and another has three. Which one burns more gallons per hour?

    Maybe some of the best advice was to book a trip with a boat you trust and just go fishing. Or, we could stay home and try to convince our favorite boat to do business the way we want them to?

    And really, do you think any of the boat owners are going to wade through all this, digest it and apply it to to way they do business? Probably not. But if you're a fan of a particular boat, why not give them a call and ask them how they figure up their fuel surcharges. If you don't get a straight answer, you might want to try another boat. But this "witch hunt" bullshit, and the various conspiracy theories? Really, if you're paranoid that you're getting ripped off or screwed somehow, maybe you should get your own boat and show them all just how easy it is to make a boatload of money in Long Range fishing.
     
  8. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,344)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,661)
    No I don't think there is a conspiracy Steve....just curious what the formula is.

    Heck as you state they can run their operation anyway they want and we can choose to go fish with them or not.....it will be interesting as I said, how the LR fleet will look and operate 5 years from now.

    I don't think it is easy to make money doing what they do and I don't see how they do.... but IMO if they don't modify their marketing as LagunaTuna suggest some won't make it.




     
  9. MikeyLikesIt

    MikeyLikesIt did you say F I S H I N G ???

    Location:
    East-a-La-Mesa, baby!
    Name:
    starts with an "M".....
    Boat:
    #1 boat scrubber - Team Madrugador
    • Messages:
      (9,987)
    • Likes Received:
      (3,242)

    I dunno man, I guess I am just so f'n overworked, that I dont have time to rationalize every fucking penny.

    "it costs $xxx.00"

    so, I says to myself....self......do you want to go on this trip? it might be kinda expensive.....(tell me what isn't)....... and then its a simple yes, or no.

    I am required to "overthink" so many things at work, that I dont want to do that shit in my private life......

    I get on the trip that fits my schedule, and pay the entry fee.......happily.

    I really dont care how they dice it up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  10. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

    Location:
    The "718"
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    A big Steel One
    • Messages:
      (921)
    • Likes Received:
      (2,312)
    Using some of the logic here, those complaining about the LR business practices regarding fuel surcharges, should return every UPS package they receive. There is a fuel surcharge of 8.5% this month. It goes down to 8% July 1. The international rates are 14.5% going down to 12 July 1.
    Here is the rub. They base the fuel surcharge on the Department of Energy's monthly over the road fuel price. Not the actual price UPS pays which one would think with the amount of fuel they use is quite lower than what one pays on the highway.

    Lets see what other hidden UPS charges that are readily available to you after you ship, Fuel Surcharge, Residential vs Commercial delivery, rural delivery, international extended charges, return services charges, the fee for you the end user generating a return label on the internet (my personal favorite you do the work they charge you for it), morning delivery in the same zone as next day delivery (yes you will pay dearly to get the package before 11 even though its the same day due to the zone it shipped out of).
    What UPS gets a pass because they publish the hundreds of way they nickel dime and chisel you for money? While you are at it - one should criticize UPS for using a failed business model and having all of these fees and hidden charges.

    I love UPS! They do it better than anyone. I give them credit for figuring out their business to the smallest detail that may cost them any possible chance of losing money. Failed business model my ass they have it nailed.

    And calling the rather simplistic business of taking people fishing and fucking complaining about paying a fuel surcharge like they are taking your first born child and last meal makes those complaining sound petty and vindictive.

    Stop complaining about how they run their business and what formula they use for whatever. Go fishing. Enjoy yourself. Write about what you caught, ate, drank and laughed about.
    Any LR fishing trip is one of the most cost effective vacations you can have. I am doing 3 15 day trips on the Excel this year I dont really care how much they charge me for anything. The boat is top notch I am treated the same way.

    Buy a tennis racket and move to NYC. We have lots of free all inclusive tennis courts. You will have to kick the crackheads and heroin addicts off the court but hey there are no hidden fees.
     
  11. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

    Location:
    Bishop
    Name:
    Steve
    Boat:
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    • Messages:
      (10,902)
    • Likes Received:
      (5,975)
    David, of course you realize that I wasn't painting you with the conspiracy theory comment.

    I'm not a big fan of the all inclusive pricing program, as I believe that it can and in many cases does result in a higher priced trip. Those of us who have been doing this for a while probably have a boat or two that are their go to favorites. I certainly do and what is the basis for that? For me it's a relationship experience that I enjoy and am comfortable with. Familiarity with the boat and all of it's nuances, and a trust that the guys I'll be fishing with will do everything in their power to control the things they can.

    And along with with that goes a basic trust that these operations have been working their asses off for years to earn my business, and I'm talking about well before this "economic downturn" hit us all. Quite similar to the real estate business. When it was a booming thing, we saw some of the offices gearing up, expanding and hiring lots of new agents. Many new agents came to the market place. When this tailspin hit and sales slumped, the guys who had invested the time and hard work, building a client base over the previous ten plus years are the ones who continued to be successful while those who were fairly new simply faded away.

    Tough business this is for sure. Again, I encourage everybody to inquire with their favorite boat in an open and honest conversation about fuel surcharges and how they are figured. In many cases, we have heard numbers thrown around like $15 or $20. Well if they're always rounding up, you the angler are paying for it. Honestly, and I'll give this one to you, it sometimes looked like they were using a dart board to decided how much to charge. Some years back there was an opportunity for the boats to save money if they had the time to take advantage of it. Depart Point Loma and round trip Ensenada to fuel up. Even paying the crew members on this excursion and paying for the fuel it took to make the trip, they were able to save quite a bit. I fished a trip on Shogun right after they had made this run and there was no fuel surcharge. At the same time, another of the big name boats from Fisherman's was doing the same deal at Ensenada and still had a pretty substantial surcharge.

    Go figure
     
  12. fyermn

    fyermn Member

    Location:
    Utah
    Name:
    Dan
    Boat:
    LONG RANGE fishing
    • Messages:
      (486)
    • Likes Received:
      (95)
    Steve; At one time, Mexican Diesel fuel was much cheaper than diesel fuel in the U.S., but that is not the same now. It is cheaper, but not all that much, and it not a very clean diesel. I used to run it in my truck, and I had to use extra filters an additives to keep it from gumming up my engine.

    Now. who can tell me honestly, how many miles do the Long Range boats get per Gallon of diesel? I would take a bet that it is in the neighborhood of 1---1 1/2 gallons to the mile, on average. Round trip to Ensenada, 125-150 miles, is about 200 gallons of fuel. Add crew expense and time it takes the boat to do the trip while WE wait at the dock for the boat to return(8-10 hrs), bickering about having to wait, and thinking it would just be better to pay the surcharge. Their is no good answer right now, and like you, I do not like the all-inclusive pricing. It is just too much for my pocket book.
     
  13. LagunaTuna

    LagunaTuna Newbie

    Location:
    Laguna Niguel
    Name:
    Skip
    Boat:
    Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
    • Messages:
      (131)
    • Likes Received:
      (4)
    Many of us posting here are the type of angler that the long range industry loves and has thrived upon for years, we have followed their rules, they have made good money from us, they always appreciated our generous tips, and they sincerely hope that we all continue to go fishing in this tough economy. Unfortunately many folks today do have to account for every dollar spent as they have way less of them to spend today. That has been my main point here, some folks need to know the bottom line cost in advance otherwise they are simply not going to dive in semi blind like we do, and how does one realistically calculate the actual bottom line cost of a long range trip when they have no clue what the additional costs are going to be unitil the day of the trip, and if you are paid in full by that date and then decide the add ons are just too much to swallow financially how do you get your trip money back once you've been locked in. Long range operators for many years now have asked us to tie up our money for x amount of months while we take all the risk regarding increased fuel costs, permit costs, visa costs, parking costs, galley tab, fish processing and basically anything else that might increase in cost by the time our depature date rolls around and fishing begins, plus we run the additional risk of having them use our deposit monies for operating capital prior to our trip since there is nothing in writing stating that they cannot do so.

    Perhaps this way of doing busines on the "honor system" is more accepted by anglers when the economy is booming, their house is going up in value every year, their IRA account is sound and growing, their job is secure, nationwide unemployement figures are not at double digits, businesses are not failing left and right with local shopping malls void of numerous retailers who have been there for many years. But we don't have that financial security and cosumer confidence today, and folks are forced to spend their hard earned money more wisely so they most often want to know the what the "true" bottom line is in advance when spending thousands of dollars on a luxury expense while still having to make sure their family and dog or cat are fed, insured, and kept healthy.

    So why is it so hard for some to comprehend a "all inclusive" trip price? Isn't that basically how the Intrepid has been doing business from day one? They started just a few years ago with zero customer base and they seem to be doing just fine. Does their "all inclusive" trip price concept not make more sense when defining the bottom line in advance if that is a consumer desire? and does it not provide the consumer with more confidence when spending thousands of dollars during tough times? You've got to think that calculating your trip cost is way easier when the price is all inclusive, thus providing less pressure when making the decision to pull the trigger on a trip or not, rather than just throwing caution to the wind and chancing all the unknown add on costs while your money is tied up in an operator's business account with basically no insurance that you will ever get one penny back if things get even more ugly. So why do we spend our money with a leap of faith?, because that has been the mandate for many years and we have always bought into it? or perhaps because no one got seriously burned until just recently? And can anyone actually tell me or anyone else how financially sound any SD long range operation truly is today?

    I guess worse case you are out a few thousand bucks, maybe more, so no big deal for some folks, but for others it would be a big deal, and I think the long range fishing industry truly needs as many anglers as they can get in this down economy, including loyal intrusting past customers like us and "others" as in new customers, in all income classes. So why not make it easier (more user friendly) and safer for folks to do business with you in tough times is my take on this. If you don't, surely someone else eventually will, and it may just end up costing you a bunch of business before you get onboard, then hopefully it's not too late.

    IMO the severe damage caused by the financial crissis to most folks in this country isn't going away any time real soon, it will take years for us to get out of this mess created by a few greedy pigs at the top of the home mortgage industry who used bad (and often fraudulent) consumer business practices to milk the system while corrupt government officials like Barney Frank turned their head the other way, and all of us got sold out the back door, financially speaking, to the Chinese. My bet is the Chinese wont be buying any failing long range operations nor any long range business loans anytime in the near future, and the government certainly is not going to bail out long range operations like they have the AIG's of the world, so perhaps it is time to shore up your business practices and keep as many past customers as you can while legitimately inticing all the new ones you can.

    Again my comments have NOT been about the cost of fuel, that is a BIG part of a long range operator's expense which will get passed along to the customer, and fuel costs are currently on the decline so at the dock "fuel surcharges" will hopefully go bye bye here in the near future, in my way of thinking it is more about simplifying the booking and payment process and securing deposit money while posting a more realistic and accurate trip cost upfront so that those who have not been riding a boat for 15 years and may not have complete trust in an specific long range operation like many of us long timers have, will come onboard and not feel like they may have been taken in a "bait and switch" scheme at the dock or they got killed with all the add on costs normally associated with long range fishing, or worse yet they got turned off while looking back and seeing how antiquated the business agenda was that seemed to always favor the house perhaps lessing the overall experience based on total financial cost.

    Just one angler's opinion of the changing times we live in.
     
  14. wils

    wils lazy-ass well known "member"

    Location:
    not a spoiled bitch from san diego
    Name:
    bill
    Boat:
    I hate boats
    • Messages:
      (8,813)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,864)
    that has got to be the record for Longest-Winded rant in BD history. :urno1:
     
  15. CHUBACA6

    CHUBACA6 Member

    Location:
    LA
    Name:
    Oscar
    Boat:
    none yet
    • Messages:
      (611)
    • Likes Received:
      (215)
    And I still don't understand what he meant :_diarrhea_:
     
  16. fishdoggary

    fishdoggary I do what I want Bitch!

    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Name:
    Gary
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (1,078)
    • Likes Received:
      (1,050)
    So why is it so hard for some to comprehend a "all inclusive" trip price? Isn't that basically how the Intrepid has been doing business from day one? They started just a few years ago with zero customer base and they seem to be doing just fine. Does their "all inclusive" trip price concept not make more sense when defining the bottom line in advance if that is a consumer desire? and does it not provide the consumer with more confidence when spending thousands of dollars during tough times? You've got to think that calculating your trip cost is way easier when the price is all inclusive, thus providing less pressure when making the decision to pull the trigger on a trip or not, rather than just throwing caution to the wind and chancing all the unknown add on costs while your money is tied up in an operator's business account with basically no insurance that you will ever get one penny back if things get even more ugly. So why do we spend our money with a leap of faith?, because that has been the mandate for many years and we have always bought into it? or perhaps because no one got seriously burned until just recently? And can anyone actually tell me or anyone else how financially sound any SD long range operation truly is today?

    That is why I ride the Intrepid. I always know exactly what my trip is going to cost me. No ups, no downs, no extras. And I know they will be there when I get to the dock.
     
  17. LagunaTuna

    LagunaTuna Newbie

    Location:
    Laguna Niguel
    Name:
    Skip
    Boat:
    Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
    • Messages:
      (131)
    • Likes Received:
      (4)
    Well thanks for the award, does not surprize me that you still don't see the light and most likely never will. Change is often hard to invision for some that have been doing things one way or as directed for many years, and many new concepts get criticized before they become the norm. Consumer protection laws are made for a reason, and even those laws don't always work to protect consumers as many industries tend to create methods of doing business that either fly under the radar or become accepted by those who may not ever think twice about how they are spending their money because they are so caught up in their habit or passion. Full disclosure and spelling out ramifications if performance is not met is everything in today's business world, sorry if that is a reality that does not make sense to you. "Buyer beware" has legally become "Seller disclose", many here will fully understand what I mean.

    Happy fishing!
     
  18. LagunaTuna

    LagunaTuna Newbie

    Location:
    Laguna Niguel
    Name:
    Skip
    Boat:
    Excel - Red Rooster - Reel Time
    • Messages:
      (131)
    • Likes Received:
      (4)
    And this honest post comes from an angler who's profile for job description states: "Senior Estimator"

    So go figure! [​IMG]
     
  19. scrubber

    scrubber true story

    Location:
    san pedro
    Name:
    will
    Boat:
    1936 wilson xt
    • Messages:
      (501)
    • Likes Received:
      (2)
    SHUT UP YOU INFIDELS!!!!

    - Arab Sheik likes this
     
  20. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,344)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,661)
    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    perfect!!!
     

Share This Page