Fluoro to Hook Knot - Pics or it Didn't Happen - Show me Your Knot!

[2Rotten]

I have seen Sooo Maaany BD threads this year of people who hook 2, 3, 5, or more BFT on a trip only to end in Zing-Pow, Broken Leader, "Chew Through", etc. Lost fish! Often on the first run. Because the line/leader/hook connection didn't hold up to the stress of the fight. I was in this camp 2 years ago, when I went 11 for 14 on the New Lo-An the first day using 30# Seaguar Premier and 30# Blue Label fluoro. I had 3 fish snap the leader, right at the knot. It was a great day, but 2 of the fish I lost felt really nice and ended the fight way too quickly. They broke off on the first run, at way less than the break strength of the leader.

In that off-season 2 winters ago I began learning how to tie better knots, and testing the results. I sucked! Often 30# Seaguar or Yo-zuri would snap, always at the hook, at around 20# of weight; sometimes less! Just to make certain it wasn't the leader material I crimped a few; 30# lift or better every time. Nope, it was the knot strength I was achieving with multiple brands of fluoro leader.

It wasn't until I purchased and tested a softer stretchable fluoro leader, Okuma Soft Steel Fluoro-Stretch, that my knot strength got up to 100%. I have been using this leader for 2 seasons now, without a single zing-pow or leader failure. Understand that I spend most of my fishing life in Oregon, only visit San Diego twice each year recently. I know that the Oregon fish don't stress leaders like the San Diego fish.

So! Here is the challenge. Use your favorite brand of fluoro. Tie your best fluoro-hook knot. See if you can dead lift 30#. Have someone take a picture, and post it here. Simple! Please identify the make of 30# fluoro you are using. Here is a pic of 30# Fluoro-Stretch lifting 30# of lead (15# downrigger ball, 12# downrigger ball, 3# cannon ball). Knot is a 5-turn San Diego Jam knot. Let's see your pics!

 

[Shewillbemine]

The hell am I gonna find balls that big and that heavy?!

 

[2Rotten]

Here is a grim story of on-the-water knot testing...

So did everyone know fluoro breaks at less than 50%???

So on a recent trip we did a bunch of tests on fluoro and mono. I was shocked to find out all, and I mean all, of the fluoro under 80lb broke at less than 50% of the line rating. If you’re fishing 60 fluoro, you’re really fishing 25-28# line...

www.bdoutdoors.com

 

[KXKH]

Fantastic stuff...I've switched over to all Soft Steel for non crimped stuff. Most fluoro is a lot weaker at the knot when tied.

 

[ChicoBob]

Light line and tiny hooks...lots of opportunity for failure. Last time out was 0 for 3 on mid grade bf on 30lb premier. Two "bite offs" and one pulled hook. Always looking to improve my landing ratio, so going to give this stuff a go on my 5 day in a couple weeks. Thanks for the information

 

[James Taylor]

Here is a test I did last year with some fluoro that caught fish. Its not 30 lb but i was ok with the results and didnt think fluoro stretched 1/6th the length. Have you measured how much the okuma fluoro stretches?

 

[2Rotten]

Have you measured how much the okuma fluoro stretches?

I have measured the stretch, but not scientifically. I put 30' top shots of 30# Seaguar, 30# Fluoro-Stretch, and 30# mono (Berkley Big Game) on 3 different reels. Then took them out to the street and connected the ends to a fixed point. And then backed away with the rod in a fighting position and the reel set at 12# of drag. The Seaguar provided a modest amount of stretch (like 5-6'); about twice that for the Fluoro-stretch; and about that much more for the mono. My crude testing showed me that the Fluoro-stretch was almost half way between the Seaguar and the Mono for stretch.

 

[scbassmaster]

I tie a 4-turn SD Jam knot to the hook, 5 turn on 25# and under. sometimes I'll use a 2x2 springer knot for ringed hooks, 3x2 springer for lighter line, I've not had any (terminal) Knot failures with them. check out toitfishing.com lots of good videos on how to tie different knots and tests on how well they hold up with different lines.

 

[jiggyn]

Spangler knot
So far several cows easy to tie and very small

 

[2Rotten]

Not to be snotty (sKnotty?) this thread isn't about knot diagrams or knot websites. Show us the results you can achieve. Pics or it didn't happen.

"Here is the challenge. Use your favorite brand of fluoro. Tie your best fluoro-hook knot. See if you can dead lift 30# with 30# fluoro leader. Have someone take a picture, and post it here. Simple!"

 

[ZZZZZ]

I have seen Sooo Maaany BD threads this year of people who hook 2, 3, 5, or more BFT on a trip only to end in Zing-Pow, Broken Leader, "Chew Through", etc. Lost fish! Often on the first run. Because the line/leader/hook connection didn't hold up to the stress of the fight. I was in this camp 2 years ago, when I went 11 for 14 on the New Lo-An the first day using 30# Seaguar Premier and 30# Blue Label fluoro. I had 3 fish snap the leader, right at the knot. It was a great day, but 2 of the fish I lost felt really nice and ended the fight way too quickly. They broke off on the first run, at way less than the break strength of the leader.

Be careful with seaguar premier

When it first came out. I took 100lb premier on a 17 day trip. My profile pic came on 100lb premier and a flyline mackerel. IGFA rated? Easy to tie and limp

I thought the diameter would take a 100lb sato crimp. 100lb premier uses one size smaller then 100lb blue label

Seaguar premier Q's

I just bought some seaguar premier for an upcoming trip. First thing I noticed is that the line is IGFA rated. Then I noticed that it's much thinner then other lines in the same line class. I've never used it before, and I'm not a big fan of IGFA...

www.bdoutdoors.com

 

[2Rotten]

4-Weeks later and not one pic demonstrating knot strength... Either the test was too difficult or the prize was insufficient!

 

[Kai]

If you catching 30 lb fish, on 30 lb leader material, retie the damn thing per fish.
Now if the fish are 10 lbs, and using 30 lb line, retie if there are frays and knicks etc in the line. Why test same line when results are already posted?

Any 90 percent plus knot strength knot is fine.
Ok stuff not published I can see reason to test.
https://www.sportfishingmag.com/gallery/gear/2014/11/line-test/

 

[2Rotten]

If you catching 30 lb fish, on 30 lb leader material, retie the damn thing per fish.
Now if the fish are 10 lbs, and using 30 lb line, retie if there are frays and knicks etc in the line. Why test same line when results are already posted?

Any 90 percent plus knot strength knot is fine.
Ok stuff not published I can see reason to test.
https://www.sportfishingmag.com/gallery/gear/2014/11/line-test/

The problem 100% is not weak line. I have proven this to myself too many times to doubt. The point of this thread is to see how many if any BDers can get close to 90% or more knot strength with flouro leader. So many Zing Pows this year, I know some are chew offs, but a lot are simple break offs. And, I strongly doubt that folks are simply setting their drags way too tight. I suspect bad knots, and I suspect that the stiffness of many brands of fluorocarbon leader material is contributing to the poor knot strength. But, this is just what I suspect based on my testing. I was hoping a few more inquisitive folks would post up their results, good or bad.

 

[Kai]

People need to test their knots! I don’t honestly think its going to be that different than the knot tying machines at past Fred Hall Show.
All I know is I tied the single uni knot, on 30 lb big game trilene, and breaks on me around 36-38 lbs..

I am glad the fish wins! They deserve it on angler errors. We need more catch and release, while I am catch and fillet 90% of the time.

All joking aside, that is the skill of angling. Only wil be better by experience, education and practice.

I think testing would be cool, but much of the equipment setup is probably the issue.

 

[PharmDoc]

I’m game Rod. I’ll try this experiment when I get off work today…COVID doesn’t take holidays …I have 3 knots that I think will all pass

 

[TOTW]

No pics of the bucket challenge, but I’ll share this video. My confidence is building with this connection and it’s finding a place next to the uni and SD Jam for terminal connections. I’m using it in those “stealth mode” situations on non-ringed hooks. A lot of guys will say to just pull a uni into a loop, and that works, too. I like to stretch my leaders after I tie a hook on, and it’s hard to keep that uni loop loopy when I do that.

 

[jiggermyster]

I don't have a lot of Fluro to test.
Found a 20 year old spool of 40# Maxima laying around.
Broke the knot at 25#.

20 year old 25# P-Line didn't break at 30#.

Conclusion:
20 year old 40# Maxima doesn't like my knot.

 

[solid72]

I tested a few several weeks back with the 3 and 4 turn uni and the SD knot. SD knot is shown in the pics, as it seemed to hold better with the flouro. 25 Soft Steel Flouro broke over 100% as well as my 30 Gold label. 35 pound Izorline MONO that broke at 41 pounds

 

[geebee]

Invest 30 bucks in a hanging digital scale with Peak Hold

Setting Drag Spring Scale : straight off reel Vs Bendo pull...

I'm still trying to figure out my lever drags calibration for this conversation, my reels are full to the brim and I am setting the drags at Strike setting For example: an Avet HXW Raptor with 80lb fluorocarbon with 20lb drag setting (bluefin...

www.bdoutdoors.com

 

[Benjamin Lau]

To get 30# of weight, I just use a 5 Gallon bucket from HD and add water. Each Gallon of water weighs 8.3# or so, a 5 gallon bucket can easily hold close to 40#.

Best of all, when it breaks, you get a spectacular video !

 

[geebee]

digital bathroom scales are surprisingly accurate (like the kind that sell under $20) --- as are the digital kitchen food scales (under $20) for weights under 10 lbs

I bought the calibration weights and was amazed how accurate the cheaper digital scales are - the spring scales on the other hand (I tested) have a lot of wobble and inconsistency

peak/hold feature on digital is a game changer for drag and knot testing...and moving on

 

[solid72]

I use both the scale and digital. They both have been identical so far.

 

[pukahd]

Ok I’ll bite…home made knot tester

50lb mono with a Springer knot / peak hold digital scale
Broke at 50 and 32 lbs

May 25, 2021

youtube.com

May 25, 2021

youtube.com

 

[jiggermyster]

Ok I’ll bite…home made knot tester

50lb mono with a Springer knot / peak hold digital scale
Broke at 50 and 32 lbs

May 25, 2021

youtube.com

May 25, 2021

youtube.com

I like your hook catcher.
Sometimes a challenge to find the hook after I bust a knot.