Flat Fall, butterfly and knife jigs.

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by RichG, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. big dog62

    big dog62 Well-Known "Member"

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    Maybe hook your gopro up to your jig with the toe mount, see what's go'n on down there? :D
     
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  2. Sgtsilbaugh

    Sgtsilbaugh "Keep calm and.........FISH ON!!!!"

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    I've seen an okuma video where they put the water wolf on the line with a yoyo jig, but I don't know if it would work with a knife jig since you bounce it around on the retrieve rather than a straight retrieve like a yoyo.
     
  3. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Never got the GoPro...at least not yet. Probably will before my trip.

    Anyway, what I want to do is learn how to feel/recognize when I get bit on the drop. Cameras can wait until I might actually catch something...
     
  4. ripped

    ripped I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    This is a good tutorial if you haven't seen it.

     
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  5. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Thank you, Gary. Good tutorial on the right technique to let the jig sink.

    It's interesting that the technique here is similar to fishing the chunk. Which is not to say that I know squat about the chunk, either! On my last trip, a 10-day in October, my friend Tony O'Connell gave me a quick lesson on fishing the chunk. I had tried before on cow trips, not for long and with zero success. I was using the wrong rod, and the wrong rigging, and I couldn't get the rhythm right.
    Plus, while a few people caught a few fish on the chunk, it wasn't "hot" fishing by any means. That was some three years ago, maybe four, on the Excel.

    This last trip, we ran out of bait with 90 minutes left to fish, on our last day out at the Tanner Bank. We had a couple of skippies aboard and some other fish, and Jesus (this was on Intrepid) started cutting chunks. It didn't last long, but the tuna got on us, and we caught quite a few. I was trying to chunk right alongside the others, and I was an absolute menace. I wanted my chunks to sink freely, so I wanted to make sure I had slack line above...way too much slack line. Tony was kind enough to pull me aside and coach me up a bit. I guess that comes naturally to him! Anyway, I got back in the chunk line, avoided tangling anyone, and caught two tuna that way. Not cows, of course...30lb schoolies, but my first ever chunk fish.

    Sorry for the tangent, but based on the video, the same way you let out line on the chunk is what you apparently do with the flat fall. For me, that will take a little practice, but I have already picked up the technique a bit.

    What still has me a little nervous is recognizing the bite. That's not an issue with chunks from what I've seen. But with jigs it is. I imagine having just the small amount of slack line necessary will make that easier, but even so, I worry that I will indeed recognize that I've been bumped, but by the time I get in gear and take up the slack, the fish will be long gone. And yes, I have had that experience many times. Mostly on wahoo, to be sure. I bet I have had my jig smacked on the sink by wahoo 50+ times. Since I started using heavy fluoro, I always get the jig back (I used to always get cut off), but the fluoro is wrecked and I have to re-tie. And in all of those strikes on the sink, I guess I have only ever gotten one or two wahoo. Yellowtail have also tormented me, but in most cases I get the last laugh with yellows. They may hit my jig on the sink...and I pretty much always miss the bite...but when that happens, I tend to get bit on the retrieve too, and end up with the fish anyway.

    The bottom line is that I have the experience now to recognize when my jig gets bit on the sink, but just never seem to be able to stick the fish when that happens. I am crossing my fingers that if a tuna bites my flat fall, it will swim with it long enough for me to get in gear and wind tight...
     
  6. Olddog8

    Olddog8 Well-Known "Member"

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    I've had them bit on the fall, while just sitting there, bouncing around (on fall), and on the retrieve. Just most of the bluefin have been on the retreive, I'm not saying I feel every bite, just saying I've often had them bit on the retreive. The bite on the fall can be very subtle and I'm sure I miss some, when in doubt... Turn the handle.
     
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  7. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    Jerry, in an earlier reply, Kub said he had used both stranded wire and single strand wire.
    And sure, why wouldn't it work? Maybe ask the crew to give you/me a hand with some 275 lb.
     
  8. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    Something about getting bit on the sink, a question we have all probably heard, usually fishing a Blue/Chrome Glow Back Tady 4/0 or 6X, in an early morning grey light or sunset scenario.

    "How will I know when I get bit on the sink?" And the answer is usually: "You'll just know!" :) That may seem a little flip, but it's pretty much what happened to me.

    My one and only experience catching one on a Flat Fall, 100 gram, was fishing offshore for schoolie sized Yellowfin, 24-27 lbs. I made one drop in the bow and about 70-80 feet down, the jig stopped sinking, line stopped coming off the reel. So, I pushed the lever to strike and turned the handle, Dumb Luck, and Voila, Tuna! So, if the jig stops falling and you don't think you've hit bottom put it in gear and wind, swings are free.
     
  9. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Do you let the sinking jig strip the line off the reel? Or do you feed the line out, just barely keeping ahead of the jig's descent? If you let the weight of the jig pull the line off the reel, will the jig flutter correctly?
     
  10. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    I just let the jig pull the line, but it was a short topshot of 40 lb fluorocarbon on a small two speed.

    Really not the experienced Flat Fall user here, Jim. Like I said, dumb luck.

    Next stop, Clarion Buffer Zone, January. I think I will fish these heavy jigs (250 gram) tied or crimped to a short 150 lb Blue Label topshot. I want to feel every twitch. If I need to feed it line, I will. I think a combination of the initial drop, then, if not bit on the way to the bottom, a short retrieve 10-15 feet, raise and lower the rod tip, shake it around a few times, another short retrieve, repeat. Then drop to the bottom again and maybe a speedier retrieve. Whatever it takes to get bit. Like any method, it takes some patience, stick with it. Kinda like chunking, that I look forward to. Think about the slow pick sometimes, Sardines are not producing very well but we stick with that hour after hour. Or Kite Jail for an hour or three.
     
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  11. seriola_killer

    seriola_killer Dalurker's #1 Fan

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    Related question: Do you feel that wire assist hooks don't get bit as well as the cord assist hooks?
     
  12. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    I have caught exectly one tuna on an assist hook, so not at all qualified to answer that. Several years ago I watched a couple of guys break out a whole bunch of shit, a new system, I think they called them Butterfly Jigs. They had hundreds of dollars worth of jigs, hooks and fluorocarbon leaders and after they got all rigged up, I watched them use it. For Yellows! I fished a six dollar 6XJr and laughed. I thought the whole process was very amusing as they looked like a monkey fucking a football! Now, just look at us. :)

    To tell the truth, I want to know why Kevlar is the material of choice for assist hooks.
    "That's the way we've always done it"
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
  13. Cubeye

    Cubeye I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Steve,
    I think you will get a better/quicker answer if you asked this Kevlar question one of those East Coast or Gulf Coast board. There are a lot of experienced fishermen on that board.
     
  14. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Kevlar is more abrasion resistant than spectra. It also has a really small diameter to test rating.

    The knots bite down much quicker with kevlar than spectra. You can use a simple overhand knot and quickly make a 100% strong assist hook. If you use spectra and dont splice it you will have to make a few half hitches around the shank of the hook to keep the spectra from slipping. Its stiffer than braid so the hooks wont foul as easy. The limpness of dacron and spectra will lead to the hooks fouling themselves frequently.
     
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  15. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Interesting!
     
  16. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    Thanks, John. After making up a couple assist hooks with doubled 200 lb spectra, I wasn't happy. The reason I went to 200 lb mono. The stiffness factor allows the assist hook to really stand off from the jig and the ring and grommet is a solid connection.

    That and trying a circle after hearing of bite offs of the Kevlar where at least the jig came back and witnessing that guy get chewed off on 60 lb fluorocarbon and losing the whole setup.

    But I still see the Keel weighted slow pitch jig as an option for bigger Yellowfin, hearing about how it produced for a couple of guys on a November trip on the Angler.
     
  17. RichG

    RichG Well-Known "Member"

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  18. nmthree

    nmthree Nick M- So Cal

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    Guys,

    Last couple of months I move been spending some time focusing on/sourcing tackle for slow pitch jigging and Mechnical jigging. If you haven't had the chance, take a look at Saltywatertackle.com in NJ. Nice thing is they are state side and have lots of experience with popping and jigging for bigger fish. They have small jigs and jigs 250g+. In regard to this conversation around rigging, here's the owner set up (Asian brand 'Cultiva') sold by Salty Water Tackle:

    http://www.saltywatertackle.com/ter...-ball-bearing-swivel-with-solid-ring-143.html
     
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  19. vegasandre

    vegasandre I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Saltywater tackle (owned by Sami of Stud spinning for big tuna fame) and Jignpop(owned by Kilsong of fish all over the world testing black hole rods fame) are two of the best sources for US based jigging and popping equipment and info. . I usually get most of my info and stuff from these guys.
    Interesting that most of the Shops that specialize in this style fishing are in NJ.
     
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  20. Sgtsilbaugh

    Sgtsilbaugh "Keep calm and.........FISH ON!!!!"

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    DAMN! Are those prices in YEN??? I thought Shimano stuff was expensive, this stuff is no joke. One local shop that is getting more in tune with mechanical jigging is Charkbait.
     
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