Fishing is now prohibited 3/25/20

Sandydog

Well-Known "Member"
Mar 18, 2017
157
350
63
51
Dana Point, CA
Name
John Kim
Boat
n/a
Gas prices are down...I am checking Costco by the crib this Friday morning. If it's close to 2 bux, I am filling my 135 gallon tank :p
I ain't saying I am going fishing but I'll have a range of about 270 miles
The oil situation has been buried in the news due to all the coronavirus news. If you missed it, Saudi Arabia basically gave the middle finger to OPEC and started producing as much oil as they could. Russia joined them, and it looks like Iran might too. Combined with the drop in oil consumption due to the virus, oil prices are in free-fall. A barrel of oil has dropped from $50-$60 just a month ago, to barely above $20. It might even drop below $20.

It's been wreaking havoc in the U.S. oil industry. Most U.S. production is offshore and in shale oil fields. Those wells are more expensive to operate, so are only profitable if prices are above $30-$40 / bbl. If prices remain this low, those wells are going to be shut off and the people working there laid off. Flip side of the lower gas prices we'll be enjoying.

It won't drop too low in California though because we have the highest fuel taxes in the country. 79.6 cents/gallon for gasoline (18.4c federal, 61.2c state), $1.11 for diesel (24.4c federal, 86.9c state) plus sales tax.

I don’t see any news of fishing/boating being closed in Orange or LA County. I’ll believe it when I see evidence.
It's not fishing per se which has been banned. Too many people were congregating at beaches, piers, and boardwalks for lots of different activities (including fishing), defeating social distancing. So they closed those areas. The Dana Point boat ramp and parking for slipped boats remains open. I guess they don't really care if your family shelters at home, or aboard your boat. As long as you're not mingling with people outside your household, the goal of social distancing is still maintained.

Public parking at the harbor is all closed though - only the slipped boater parking lots and the boat ramp parking lots are open. The boat ramp parking lot was packed on Saturday.

(Click on the latest update and search for "boat")

For sure if Hillary was the President, then we will Not Surpass China as the No.1 country with Most COVID-19 Infections!😉

No matter what it is, my President Trump always a Winner and Likes to be always No. 1....and U.S.A Did it Tonite!😂🤣😅
Hillary wouldn't have made a difference. Neither Trump nor the Democratic governors of New York, Washington, and California had the balls to do what was necessary to stop this virus like China and South Korea did. Complete and total lockdown, enforced by the police and military patrolling the streets. None of this pansy self-quarantining. Same goes for the EU countries (who have leaders far more liberal than Hillary).

The problem isn't which side of the political aisle you fall in. The problem is that democratic societies prize individual freedom. That makes them extremely reluctant to impose strict authoritarian restrictions on movement, which is what's needed if you want to stop the spread of this virus. China did it because they're authoritarian. Korea did it because they had a scare with MERS in 2015 (that one had a 30% fatality rate), and so knew they had to act quickly and decisively to shut it down before it spread further.

The trajectory the EU and US/Canada are currently on are for the majority of the population to catch this disease at some point. And the purpose of social distancing and the business shutdowns isn't to stop the virus, but only to slow down its spread so the number of people sick at any given time remains within the capacity of our medical system to treat. All the hardships hundreds of millions of us will go through in the next couple months could've been avoided if our leaders had had the guts to impose draconian lockdowns affecting only tens or hundreds of thousands in the communities surrounding the first cases which were detected.

There's a tendency for people to think that if a solution (like democracy) works well in one situation, then it must be best in all situations. It doesn't work like that. Democracy works well in some (most) situations, but authoritarianism works better in others (like the current pandemic). Same goes for politics. Liberal philosophies work better in some situations, conservative philosophies work better in others. The key is being flexible enough to adopt the philosophy which works best with the current situation, and change the philosophy you apply if the situation changes. Not to blindly try to apply your one favored philosophy to all situations.
 
Last edited:

plj46

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jan 7, 2008
6,988
6,985
113
Socal
Name
john
Boat
24 ft grady white
Sure, tough times... but keeping me from going fishing or to the beach - I'm sorry but FUCK NO! What we (as US citizens) are starting to lack now, is critical thinking skills. No, the government does not tell you the truth all the time nor does it take the best (for everyone) actions. I am not going to blindly follow bullshit orders from a panicking government that failed to prep for this in the first place.

Please, someone tell me - how am I hurting anyone by going hiking, fishing or swimming? Don't generalize - shut the Florida beach parties down if they can stay apart but don't kick me and my family off a deserted beach!
I somewhat agree with you but the problem is that the "deserted beach" doesn't stay deserted ! It ends up crowded which is the problem.Down here in San Diego that's exactly what happened.Everybody had the same idea,beach or hiking.People got things shut down.
 
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Cubeye

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jan 26, 2007
3,084
2,049
113
Los Angeles
Name
Kub
Boat
17' Gregor
The oil situation has been buried in the news due to all the coronavirus news. If you missed it, Saudi Arabia basically gave the middle finger to OPEC and started producing as much oil as they could. Russia joined them, and it looks like Iran might too. Combined with the drop in oil consumption due to the virus, oil prices are in free-fall. A barrel of oil has dropped from $50-$60 just a month ago, to barely above $20. It might even drop below $20.

It's been wreaking havoc in the U.S. oil industry. Most U.S. production is offshore and in shale oil fields. Those wells are more expensive to operate, so are only profitable if prices are above $30-$40 / bbl. If prices remain this low, those wells are going to be shut off and the people working there laid off. Flip side of the lower gas prices we'll be enjoying.

It won't drop too low in California though because we have the highest fuel taxes in the country. 79.6 cents/gallon for gasoline (18.4c federal, 61.2c state), $1.11 for diesel (24.4c federal, 86.9c state) plus sales tax.


It's not fishing per se which has been banned. Too many people were congregating at beaches, piers, and boardwalks for lots of different activities (including fishing), defeating social distancing. So they closed those areas. The Dana Point boat ramp and parking for slipped boats remains open. I guess they don't really care if your family shelters at home, or aboard your boat. As long as you're not mingling with people outside your household, the goal of social distancing is still maintained.

Public parking at the harbor is all closed though - only the slipped boater parking lots and the boat ramp parking lots are open. The boat ramp parking lot was packed on Saturday.

(Click on the latest update and search for "boat")


Hillary wouldn't have made a difference. Neither Trump nor the Democratic governors of New York, Washington, and California had the balls to do what was necessary to stop this virus like China and South Korea did. Complete and total lockdown, enforced by the police and military patrolling the streets. None of this pansy self-quarantining. Same goes for the EU countries (who have leaders far more liberal than Hillary).

The problem isn't which side of the political aisle you fall in. The problem is that democratic societies prize individual freedom. That makes them extremely reluctant to impose strict authoritarian restrictions on movement, which is what's needed if you want to stop the spread of this virus. China did it because they're authoritarian. Korea did it because they had a scare with MERS in 2015 (that one had a 30% fatality rate), and so knew they had to act quickly and decisively to shut it down before it spread further.

The trajectory the EU and US/Canada are currently on are for the majority of the population to catch this disease at some point. And the purpose of social distancing and the business shutdowns isn't to stop the virus, but only to slow down its spread so the number of people sick at any given time remains within the capacity of our medical system to treat. All the hardships hundreds of millions of us will go through in the next couple months could've been avoided if our leaders had had the guts to impose draconian lockdowns affecting only tens or hundreds of thousands in the communities surrounding the first cases which were detected.

There's a tendency for people to think that if a solution (like democracy) works well in one situation, then it must be best in all situations. It doesn't work like that. Democracy works well in some (most) situations, but authoritarianism works better in others (like the current pandemic). Same goes for politics. Liberal philosophies work better in some situations, conservative philosophies work better in others. The key is being flexible enough to adopt the philosophy which works best with the current situation, and change the philosophy you apply if the situation changes. Not to blindly try to apply your one favored philosophy to all situations.
Very good summary. Thank you.
 

Tail Chaser

Well-Known "Member"
Aug 31, 2004
880
993
93
Claremont
Name
Ryan
Boat
Hobie Outback
There is way more to the story!
You are only thinking a short time back and not seeing the true picture!
Sanctions, oil tankers being mined, missles raining down on oil storage, drones being shot down, russias pipeline, our pipeline... and those happened very recently. Chess is a strategy game.
Sometimes you have to ask yourself if you are being told the truth about things... like gas leaks and explosions, refineries exploding or going offline, oil rigs exploding. Massive tankers hitting rocks. The easy spoonfed answer isn't usually right.
Countries fight with oil! We were starving russians, think Crimea, think gulf war...

Hmmm wonder whats next... maybe a sub on each coast and in the gulf is my guess.

These are my opinions, and guesses, not real news!
 

Phat Boat

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 18, 2004
1,936
754
113
San Diego
Name
Jon
Boat
Grady White Marlin 300
Very good Sandydog. I work with Chinese and one lady I manage is from the western edge of china, by Russia. No cases of COVID in her village. They(communist party) shut there family inside their house for 6 weeks. No one leaves. One person (party member) is in charge of a bunch of homes to bring food and supplies as needed. If you leave you are rounded up and thrown back into your home. This is what it took, and we are not even close to this type of lock down.
 
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Tail Chaser

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Aug 31, 2004
880
993
93
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Ryan
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Hobie Outback
I am amazed at some of your answers! Praising communism! So fucking sad! This is the USA... We are better than that and should have had a much more creative response!
Imagine if we knew all our citizens ages, whether they they were immune compromised or not. Where they lived... boy those would be tough to sort out... not like we have data bases with all that info and more.

Now why didn't we quarantine those people, a very small percentage of our population? Could have put them up in our fanciest resorts or cruise ships, had plenty of volunteers who would have had to quarantine until this ended... however long it took.
Cost? A fraction of what it costs for a high speed rail to not be built!
California is the worlds 3rd or 5th largest economy, we shut it down for what gain? We could have given our seniors a free vacation with all the best care available and the rest of us could suck it up.
Fucking commie sympathizers prevent creative ideas!
 

Tail Chaser

Well-Known "Member"
Aug 31, 2004
880
993
93
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Ryan
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Hobie Outback
I am amazed at some of your answers! Praising communism! So fucking sad! This is the USA... We are better than that and should have had a much more creative response!
Imagine if we knew all our citizens ages, whether they they were immune compromised or not. Where they lived... boy those would be tough to sort out... not like we have data bases with all that info and more.

Now why didn't we quarantine those people, a very small percentage of our population? Could have put them up in our fanciest resorts or cruise ships, had plenty of volunteers who would have had to quarantine until this ended... however long it took.
Cost? A fraction of what it costs for a high speed rail to not be built!
California is the worlds 3rd or 5th largest economy, we shut it down for what gain? We could have given our seniors a free vacation with all the best care available and the rest of us could suck it up.
Fucking commie sympathizers prevent creative ideas!
As Jesus once said "untie him"! The answer is not more chains, we are all going to die! Jesus wants us to live!
 

joe pimentel

Fried Fish
Dec 27, 2010
430
290
63
pismo beach, ca. U.S.A.
Name
Joe P.
Boat
The Pacific Mistress
Rastafari live for ever praise Jah :smoking33:
Every little thing will be all right...
Don't worry 🎼🎶🎵 :Pillow_Fi
:Smoke_Emoticon: take time for yourself and roll a spliff bra
Puff pass enjoy... Breath in hold it...hold it...
Now relax ....:720icon:
 

Y Go Home

Wage Slave
Nov 1, 2005
447
260
63
.
Name
me
Boat
.
Saw ARCO in HB at 2.69. Getting closer to that mark you are looking for.
$2.59 this past Friday at Costco. Boat is now outta the driveway and on the street in anticipation of the drop that gets it to $2.20 a gallon.
 

Sandydog

Well-Known "Member"
Mar 18, 2017
157
350
63
51
Dana Point, CA
Name
John Kim
Boat
n/a
I am amazed at some of your answers! Praising communism! So fucking sad! This is the USA... We are better than that and should have had a much more creative response!
Well, the presumption is that China managed to clamp down on this because they're a totalitarian state, so have no qualms about simply shutting down an entire city. That's the kind of drastic action necessary if you wanted to stop this virus.

But one of the downsides of totalitarian states is that they lie through their teeth when things don't go their way. There's considerable evidence that China hasn't really contained this virus, and all that's happened is that their official numbers have become divorced from reality. Newsweek (yes, the liberal rag) ran an article comparing death rates in Wuhan in 4Q2019, vs 4Q2018 and 4Q2017, and their conclusion was that China is underreporting cases of the virus and deaths by an order of magnitude (a factor of 10).

Anecdotal reports from individuals in China also suggest the virus is still rampant and spreading. e.g. A nurse reported she was being reassigned to Beijing to help with increasing load at the hospitals there. Why would Beijing hospitals have increased load if the virus had been contained in Wuhan and was under control?

Imagine if we knew all our citizens ages, whether they they were immune compromised or not. Where they lived... boy those would be tough to sort out... not like we have data bases with all that info and more.

Now why didn't we quarantine those people, a very small percentage of our population? Could have put them up in our fanciest resorts or cruise ships, had plenty of volunteers who would have had to quarantine until this ended... however long it took.
I agree that creative solutions are usually best. But the math behind this pandemic (or any pandemic) is inescapable. The timing matters as much as the solution. We're past the window where we could've stopped this and killed it off before most people were ever exposed to it. If you miss that window, you're left with an impossible fight against an exponential growth rate. At that point, most people will eventually get it, and the only question is if you can slow it down enough so that you have enough hospital beds for all the people who have it at any given moment.

The simulations in this video (and linked sites) let you see how the graphs play out over time. The window you have in which a swift reaction can knock the disease down quickly enough so that most of your population is never exposed, is rather short. If you wondered why the WHO and other health agencies made such a big deal about SARS, bird flu, and swine flu when they seemingly fizzled out without killing that many people, now you know. Because if they had failed to contain it, it would've become a global pandemic like we're experiencing now. It's only because their "overreaction" succeed, that they killed off the bug during that initial window, and it fizzled out with relatively few deaths.


Even countries who managed to stem it within the initial window like Korea, will become exposed to it again when the number of global cases drop (simply because most everyone has already gotten it), and travel restrictions are lifted and they reintegrate with the rest of the world. The virus will find a large population which hasn't yet caught it so doesn't have herd immunity, so most of their citizens will also get it in a new wave of infections. The only hope there is we have some sort of vaccine against this by that time.
 
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fishkilr

on the water
Aug 27, 2012
3,225
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long beach,ca.u.s.a.
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alby
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None
The virus will find a large population which hasn't yet caught it so doesn't have herd immunity, so most of their citizens will also get it in a new wave of infections.
I'm guessing this can also happen to any isolated group of people in this country who manages to avoid it also.... so getting it in some form is inevitable for all...just hopefully later rather than sooner so its through a vaccine...
 

Tail Chaser

Well-Known "Member"
Aug 31, 2004
880
993
93
Claremont
Name
Ryan
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Hobie Outback
I understand your points... But Rest assured we knew when people were getting sick! We took action when it could be taken... Question how many of Yall knew two Carrier groups went fishing?
Big chess pieces!
 

Tail Chaser

Well-Known "Member"
Aug 31, 2004
880
993
93
Claremont
Name
Ryan
Boat
Hobie Outback
Well, the presumption is that China managed to clamp down on this because they're a totalitarian state, so have no qualms about simply shutting down an entire city. That's the kind of drastic action necessary if you wanted to stop this virus.

But one of the downsides of totalitarian states is that they lie through their teeth when things don't go their way. There's considerable evidence that China hasn't really contained this virus, and all that's happened is that their official numbers have become divorced from reality. Newsweek (yes, the liberal rag) ran an article comparing death rates in Wuhan in 4Q2019, vs 4Q2018 and 4Q2017, and their conclusion was that China is underreporting cases of the virus and deaths by an order of magnitude (a factor of 10).

Anecdotal reports from individuals in China also suggest the virus is still rampant and spreading. e.g. A nurse reported she was being reassigned to Beijing to help with increasing load at the hospitals there. Why would Beijing hospitals have increased load if the virus had been contained in Wuhan and was under control?


I agree that creative solutions are usually best. But the math behind this pandemic (or any pandemic) is inescapable. The timing matters as much as the solution. We're past the window where we could've stopped this and killed it off before most people were ever exposed to it. If you miss that window, you're left with an impossible fight against an exponential growth rate. At that point, most people will eventually get it, and the only question is if you can slow it down enough so that you have enough hospital beds for all the people who have it at any given moment.

The simulations in this video (and linked sites) let you see how the graphs play out over time. The window you have in which a swift reaction can knock the disease down quickly enough so that most of your population is never exposed, is rather short. If you wondered why the WHO and other health agencies made such a big deal about SARS, bird flu, and swine flu when they seemingly fizzled out without killing that many people, now you know. Because if they had failed to contain it, it would've become a global pandemic like we're experiencing now. It's only because their "overreaction" succeed, that they killed off the bug during that initial window, and it fizzled out with relatively few deaths.


Even countries who managed to stem it within the initial window like Korea, will become exposed to it again when the number of global cases drop (simply because most everyone has already gotten it), and travel restrictions are lifted and they reintegrate with the rest of the world. The virus will find a large population which hasn't yet caught it so doesn't have herd immunity, so most of their citizens will also get it in a new wave of infections. The only hope there is we have some sort of vaccine against this by that time.
I work with computer models and teal life EVERYDAY. While computers are Awesome... God Makes the real world react differently!
Just study quantum physics... Some of the most amazing minds, can't explain or Predict the simplest and ever present things...