FG Knot Performance

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,187
1,631
Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
Boat
11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
Walt if you use the Knot Assist tool light line is simple.......
Another suggestion I have never thought of, it makes sense.
Will give it a shot. Using the finger method would be a more
advanced technique. Not necessarily stronger but a whole lot
more efficient.
Thanks.
 

JohnTFT

Insomniac
Feb 11, 2007
1,012
2,760
The "718"
Name
John
Boat
A big Steel One
I have a question. Something we ran across while knot testing at the shop this week.

We had wildly different results in testing the FG when the ABS of the mono exceeded the ABS of the braid by a good margin.

So while the stated line strength should be higher than the braid for the knot to perform correctly.

The higher the ABS the better the knot did in terms of overall strength.

Is this a function of slightly larger diameters or the ABS of the line?
 

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
5,606
6,725
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
Boat
Red Rooster
I have a question. Something we ran across while knot testing at the shop this week.

We had wildly different results in testing the FG when the ABS of the mono exceeded the ABS of the braid by a good margin.

So while the stated line strength should be higher than the braid for the knot to perform correctly.

The higher the ABS the better the knot did in terms of overall strength.

Is this a function of slightly larger diameters or the ABS of the line?
I think so John. I think it is a ratio of nylon diameter to length of the FG. But just me thinking. If I knew for sure I would apply it.

Good question.
 

JohnTFT

Insomniac
Feb 11, 2007
1,012
2,760
The "718"
Name
John
Boat
A big Steel One
Bill,

We were seeing consistently lower results with 65# Power Pro ABS @89# and Jinkai 80# Mono ABS inconsistent but tested @ 84-86#. The knot was failing in the 55-62# range usually.

When we went to Diamond Line 80# ABS of 122 we saw breaking in the 79-82# range.

Diameters are different - .81mm Jinkai .90mm Diamond line.

Not sure if the ABS is the deciding factor.

20 wraps.

1/2 hitch.
Tightened knot.

5 Turn Rizutto

Tightened Knot again

Tightened Rizutto
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bill W

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
5,606
6,725
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
Boat
Red Rooster
Have you tried soaking the line and knot For a couple of hours? I suspect glue would degrade when soaked but a knot might go the other way. Might try hitchless too, that would transfer the break to the exact middle of the FG. I tighten the Rizzuto, then the FG and finally straighten the knot pulling the nylon tag end.
 
Last edited:

JohnTFT

Insomniac
Feb 11, 2007
1,012
2,760
The "718"
Name
John
Boat
A big Steel One
Have you tried soaking the line and knot For a couple of hours?
No - I know there will be a major difference in test results.

I think the testing with dry lines makes the testing comparable and fairly accurate.

Want to try the same 65# Power Pro with some 100# Makai (Toray-Gruppo) fluorocarbon. Should be interesting.
 

Fishybuzz

fishybuzz
Apr 4, 2003
8,620
8,581
Tucson
Visit site
Name
David Tang
Boat
Intrepid
No - I know there will be a major difference in test results.

I think the testing with dry lines makes the testing comparable and fairly accurate.

Want to try the same 65# Power Pro with some 100# Makai (Toray-Gruppo) fluorocarbon. Should be interesting.

Perhaps it has to do with the difference in the hardness of the lines I know Jinkai is very soft and Izor Line One and some other lines are harder....just throwing that out there...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bill W and yessokk

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
5,606
6,725
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
Boat
Red Rooster
Marla Sportsfishing down in Puerto Vallarta uses the FG exclusively. My buddy who we just came back from our trip got a 275 and last year I got a 340 and both on the FG knot. I would trust it tied correctly and do the pull test before using. Know what it should look like when done completely. A bit translucent. I use two sticks to pull hard.
Seems there are variables In # of wraps exc.. Wondered what Marla Sportfishing does?
 

vipertom1970

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 26, 2015
1,219
1,013
50
Inland Empire
Name
tom
Boat
2018 Parker 2320 SL
Marla Sportsfishing down in Puerto Vallarta uses the FG exclusively. My buddy who we just came back from our trip got a 275 and last year I got a 340 and both on the FG knot. I would trust it tied correctly and do the pull test before using. Know what it should look like when done completely. A bit translucent. I use two sticks to pull hard.
I lost a fish right at the knot fishing with them last year.
 

vipertom1970

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 26, 2015
1,219
1,013
50
Inland Empire
Name
tom
Boat
2018 Parker 2320 SL
Thanks for the input. Was the fish on a run when it happened?
It happened during the first 10 seconds of the fight. I think the braid somehow cut into the mono right where the braid meet the mono and did not break at the coil wrapping. We booked a new year trip with them on their new boat and will ask how they tie them.

I am in Corona and can show you the bobbing knot if you ever want to stop by. I will also practice the FG knot again this winter but will burn the the tail end of the mono for extra security.

This is what I will try Briggsy's FG Knot - YouTube
 
Last edited:

Fishybuzz

fishybuzz
Apr 4, 2003
8,620
8,581
Tucson
Visit site
Name
David Tang
Boat
Intrepid
As i recall they use a lot more wraps than I have ever heard of....something like 40 or 45 wraps according to Hard Drive....IMO wayyyy to many.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bill W

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,187
1,631
Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
Boat
11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
Perhaps it has to do with the difference in the hardness of the lines I know Jinkai is very soft and Izor Line One and some other lines are harder....just throwing that out there...
You hit the bullseye .... Other factors can come into play but the following are the major concerns. When trying out the latest and greatest super line there can be significant differences in fluoro hardnesses, inconsistent diameters for the same pound test and different coefficient of friction that are a result of various coatings spectra mfgs. put on their lines , all have a direct effect on knotting efficiency. As discussed in a previous post when trying out available options, it is always important to do some strength testing as usually some adjustment is required.
Walt
 

vipertom1970

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 26, 2015
1,219
1,013
50
Inland Empire
Name
tom
Boat
2018 Parker 2320 SL
Just curious if your guys do FG with hollow braided line or you serve it ?
 

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
5,606
6,725
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
Boat
Red Rooster
It happened during the first 10 seconds of the fight. I think the braid somehow cut into the mono right where the braid meet the mono and did not break at the coil wrapping.
Sad... the break always happens in the middle of the FG for me. The only thing that will cut the line there is a hitch.
 

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,187
1,631
Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
Boat
11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
Bill,

We were seeing consistently lower results with 65# Power Pro ABS @89# and Jinkai 80# Mono ABS inconsistent but tested @ 84-86#. The knot was failing in the 55-62# range usually.

When we went to Diamond Line 80# ABS of 122 we saw breaking in the 79-82# range.

Diameters are different - .81mm Jinkai .90mm Diamond line.

Not sure if the ABS is the deciding factor.

20 wraps.

1/2 hitch.
Tightened knot.

5 Turn Rizutto

Tightened Knot again

Tightened Rizutto
Might be able to offer some input , additional information required please :goldfish:
What was breaking the mono or the spectra?
Was mono used for both tests?
Where was the breaking taking place?
Using cinching tools, Did the whole section of the wraps turn translucent or just part?
Tx
Walt
 
Last edited:

JohnTFT

Insomniac
Feb 11, 2007
1,012
2,760
The "718"
Name
John
Boat
A big Steel One
Might be able to offer some input , additional information required please :goldfish:
What was breaking the mono or the spectra?
Was mono used for both tests?
Where was the breaking taking place?
Using cinching tools, Did the whole section of the wraps turn translucent or just part?
Tx
Walt
Spectra broke almost always.

Mono on both tests

The knot was breaking in the middle.

Yellow spectra turned white from the first wrap to the last.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bill W

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,187
1,631
Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
Boat
11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
Spectra broke almost always.
Mono on both tests
The knot was breaking in the middle.
Yellow spectra turned white from the first wrap to the last.
Thanks.
OK,,, thanks for that feed back.
Following is my best effort as feeble as it may be I am willing to take a swing at the ⚾
Most all problems with the FG results in either insufficient cinching or the
number of wraps needing modification. Cinching appears great turning translucent all the way
the end of the wraps. That is an indication that there may be too few wraps as the spectra leader
interaction has gone very smoothly. Perhaps too smoothly .
Smooth cinching indicates hard very slick leader surface and
or the coating on the spectra which can act like a lubricant which promotes easier cinching.
A little known fact is that spectra on its own has the coefficient of friction very close to Teflon. Which
is one of the root causes of all the knot tying difficulty using spectra. When too few wraps are constructed
the cinching pressure per wrap is increased and in some cases becomes excessive resulting in either the leader or the spectra separating. It is beneficial to construct the max number of wraps so that cinching force
or "Tuna Force" is spread out over as many wraps as possible. The best way to determine this is to keep adding wraps until the last 1-2 wraps will not turn translucent . That indicates that all the pulling forces has been distributed as evenly as possible through the entire wrap.

So my best recommendation is to add some more wraps. Start with +5 and go from there. If the spectra still turns translucent all the way to the end and premature knot failure is still apparent add a few more turns. You will know when the max limit of wraps is reached as the spectra will not go translucent any further as all the puling force will have been absorbed by the previous wraps.. Then just back off a couple of wraps and that will be it.

The PP/Jinki combination resulted in a 69% connection.
The PP/Diamond combination resulted in a 66% connection.
Definitely room for improvement.
All though both are probably "adequate" as drag settings will be way below the breaking points. Which is the main reason less then stellar connections catch a ton of fish.
If adjustments are made please post up with the results. I may have to "adjust" my thinking....!!

My .37 cents worth for your consideration.
Walt
 
Last edited:

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
5,606
6,725
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
Boat
Red Rooster
Here is a interesting idea on the last portion of this link.


Time for me to start testing knots...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cubeye

JohnTFT

Insomniac
Feb 11, 2007
1,012
2,760
The "718"
Name
John
Boat
A big Steel One
So we tested and tested yesterday. Probably tied 50 fg's. Had knots break in the 80# range with 25-30 twists. Had lots of them break in the high 70's with 16-20 twists.

Was lots of fun - different people tying the knots using different finishing methods and amount of twists.

What bothered me was we got wildly different results when we switched to TUF Line XP 65# and Makai 80# monofilament. 90# ABS and 124 ABS respectively. 25-30 turn FG broke in the 71-79 pound range frequently and in the 80-81pound range as well.

A change in material and knot twists had a huge impact on knot results.

Which leads me to this conclusion - the average person who does knot have a testing rig has no idea what the strength of their FG is. None. Zero.

And has been stated so many times - most people dont pull nearly as hard as they think. Not even close.

So tie away. FG for life!!!

I pull really hard. I will knot be using an FG on any of my personal gear.
 

vipertom1970

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 26, 2015
1,219
1,013
50
Inland Empire
Name
tom
Boat
2018 Parker 2320 SL
So we tested and tested yesterday. Probably tied 50 fg's. Had knots break in the 80# range with 25-30 twists. Had lots of them break in the high 70's with 16-20 twists.

Was lots of fun - different people tying the knots using different finishing methods and amount of twists.

What bothered me was we got wildly different results when we switched to TUF Line XP 65# and Makai 80# monofilament. 90# ABS and 124 ABS respectively. 25-30 turn FG broke in the 71-79 pound range frequently and in the 80-81pound range as well.

A change in material and knot twists had a huge impact on knot results.

Which leads me to this conclusion - the average person who does knot have a testing rig has no idea what the strength of their FG is. None. Zero.

And has been stated so many times - most people dont pull nearly as hard as they think. Not even close.

So tie away. FG for life!!!

I pull really hard. I will knot be using an FG on any of my personal gear.
Thanks for the test but if FG knot breaks at the knot then I better stick with PR popping knot. I did 3 tests on PR Popping using 130 mono and 130 braid and all three broke at the braid AWAY from the knot.
 
Last edited:

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
5,606
6,725
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
Boat
Red Rooster
Thanks John. Your line strength machine put to good use. I have a crude crane scale with a peak reading. I have some 130# Guides Choice that will be tested for ABS and various old heavy line/leader. I am all about testing and knowing for sure. What I think might be an improvement for heavy line is a double line FG that will use the reel handle to loop over and use the first guide to hitch on for tension. That should increase grip and spread the cross wraps wider.

You have a good system Tom.