FG knot failure

Bill W

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  • Jan 12, 2006
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    As has been discussed before, some mono/fluoro lines are softer than others. Sometimes it's easy to scuff the lighter lines when wrapping around the pullers and tensioning. So this may be a point of failure.
    I like a larger diameter puller for the leader side. Pretty pullers they are not. And the spectra you need to candy cane up the puller without crossing.
     
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    vipertom1970

    Tuna Sniper
    Oct 26, 2015
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    what did I do wrong ? I was determined to practice the GF knot but when sinch it down today for 65# braid to 40# mono it broke again in the middle of the knot. I did a 20 total wraps+one overhand then 6 wrap Rizuto finish. Should I try without overhand knot ?
     
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    back-breaker

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    Sep 30, 2005
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    Hard to say without seeing you tie it. Your method of 10 and 10 wraps 1 half hitch and a rizzuto is my go to and I haven’t had a failure mid knot. Assuming you tightened after the half hitch and before you tie the rizzuto. You might try testing with a heavier plastic line. I use the technique of holding the spectra in my teeth and make the wraps tight by pinching as I wrap. Good luck.
     
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    malanx

    Royal Star 200# Club
    Sep 28, 2011
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    what did I do wrong ? I was determined to practice the GF knot but when sinch it down today for 65# braid to 40# mono it broke again in the middle of the knot. I did a 20 total wraps+one overhand then 6 wrap Rizuto finish. Should I try without overhand knot ?
    Things you might be doing wrong/ missing:

    Be sure to wet the knot before tightening. Heat kills mono (and all lines).

    I like to tighten the knot BEFORE adding the rizuto finish.


    If those don't help:

    Go to 30 total wraps, or more ---> this will test if your number of wraps aren't sufficient for the line combo. I do a minimum of 24 total wraps, usually around 30 to 32.
     
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    Bill W

    tunaholic
  • Jan 12, 2006
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    Things you might be doing wrong/ missing:

    Be sure to wet the knot before tightening. Heat kills mono (and all lines).

    I like to tighten the knot BEFORE adding the rizuto finish.


    If those don't help:

    Go to 30 total wraps, or more ---> this will test if your number of wraps aren't sufficient for the line combo. I do a minimum of 24 total wraps, usually around 30 to 32.
    The key wrap is the end one cause hitting the guides can loosen it and all will follow. That first wrap needs to be tight. Sometimes the pull test does not prove actual fishing. If you put that many wraps and try to tighten can you get the other end to change color?
     
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    vipertom1970

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    I did wet the line before cinching and did put a lot of tension on the main line. I will try without 1/2 hitch before Rizuto today.

    is 5 to 6 Rizuto wraps good enough ?
     
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    FishRock

    Still trying to figure it all out
    Mar 27, 2013
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    I did wet the line before cinching and did put a lot of tension on the main line. I will try without 1/2 hitch before Rizuto today.

    is 5 to 6 Rizuto wraps good enough ?
    A 5 - 6 turn should work fine. Never heard of anyone doing more.
     
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    ShadowX

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    Oct 10, 2010
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    Its one of the reasons why I don't tie the FG knot on a boat. Unless its tied exactly right and cinched properly, it can easily fail. Like most knots, it needs to be tested close to the breaking strength to ensure that it won't fail. The line needs to be dry when tying or the moisture can prevent the knot from cinching properly. Its a great knot, but it can be overly complicated compared to John Collins knot. The JC knot is bulkier, but its easier to tie on a boat.
     
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    vipertom1970

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    Its one of the reasons why I don't tie the FG knot on a boat. Unless its tied exactly right and cinched properly, it can easily fail. Like most knots, it needs to be tested close to the breaking strength to ensure that it won't fail. The line needs to be dry when tying or the moisture can prevent the knot from cinching properly. Its a great knot, but it can be overly complicated compared to John Collins knot. The JC knot is bulkier, but its easier to tie on a boat.
    I assume you are talking about PR or Albright knot ? yes, that is my GO-TO for small lines but too bulky for 100-130#.
     
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    ShadowX

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    I assume you are talking about PR or Albright knot ? yes, that is my GO-TO for small lines but too bulky for 100-130#.

    Its also called the Royal Polaris knot. Its easy to tie on a boat and is relatively strong. Its definitely bulky for larger lines, but I usually don't fish the 100-130 class lines. I use this knot on lines up to 60lbs.

    The PR knot is good too, but requires a bobbin so its not a knot most people use unless they have the time to tie it properly.

     
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    vipertom1970

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    Its also called the Royal Polaris knot. Its easy to tie on a boat and is relatively strong. Its definitely bulky for larger lines, but I usually don't fish the 100-130 class lines. I use this knot on lines up to 60lbs.

    The PR knot is good too, but requires a bobbin so its not a knot most people use unless they have the time to tie it properly.

    sorry, I meant RP knot not PR. Yes, I use RP knot 99% of time for anything less than 80# and during a hot bite.
     
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    malanx

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    Bill and all,

    First off, absolutely correct on the first wrap being critical, as you don't want the knot to loosen if this wrap slips! I don't think it needs to be as tight as at the base of the knot, but it can't move.

    I can get 30+ wraps to have the first wrap lightly change color, with a lot of pulling and a well lubricated knot. On a long range boat I'll tie a hook on the fluoro and then attach to a trolling strap or the anchor area, put the reel in full and slow pull, while palming the spool. Great test of fg and my terminal knot

    If the there is too much going on around the boat and i cant attach my line to anything without getting in the way, I'll either grab a different outfit and re tie later, or go to the top deck. In a pinch I'll use line pullers, but I can't tighten the knot as well with them.


    I do think that if the first wrap of the knot is extremely tight (due to not enough wraps), it will weaken the knot some, as it will create a stress concentration at that location, going from high hoop stress to no hoop stress at the transition from knot to no knot. Too many wraps can be bad, as Bill pointed out, but you need enough to create a gradient of stress from high to lower.

    My best "fish to leader" ratio on FG was a 110yft on 30 fluoro (50# solid spectra)). That was 28 wraps.

    Biggest fish was 286 yft on 130#. That was 32 wraps.

    Jonny
     
    Bill W
    Bill W
    Was curious if you could half hitch and get a portion of the FG tight then continue with another FG.
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    malanx

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    Bill,
    I do a single half hitch, then tighten the knot fully, and only then add the rizuto finish. It definitely is way more complicated to tie that way...

    If the boat is in chaos, and I'm out of backup rigs, not the best knot to tie...

    Edit:

    I just reread your thought, and that is a really interesting idea! I've always been able to get my knot tight enough with the method I described above, but your suggestion might work really well when the boat is in chaos, and one can only tighten the knot by hand! I'm definitely going to give it a try~

    Thanks!
     
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    Rodless_Jim

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    Its one of the reasons why I don't tie the FG knot on a boat. Unless its tied exactly right and cinched properly, it can easily fail. Like most knots, it needs to be tested close to the breaking strength to ensure that it won't fail. The line needs to be dry when tying or the moisture can prevent the knot from cinching properly. Its a great knot, but it can be overly complicated compared to John Collins knot. The JC knot is bulkier, but its easier to tie on a boat.
    For my money the Tony Peña Knot is a better option than the JC/Reverse Albright. If you're having issues with the FG, especially while on the boat, you should give the Peña a try.
     
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    Tailchaser3

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    One little thing I do to my FG is put a very small drop of super glue at the connection point and let it transfer down the knot. I haven't had one fail since I did this. Of course this is not preferable when you're on the boat in a quick fix as you have to let the knot hang free from anything around it until dry. I do this at home a few days before the trip when I set up the rods and if I'm on the boat I'll do it at night if I have to retie a rod I'm not using until the next day. I had a guy see me doing that and asked if he could use the glue, he waiting a few minutes and winded it up. By morning his spool was glued together. No bueno. I did warn him so I didn't feel too bad but lesson learned I guess.

    The only time the FG has failed on me was my fault trying to do something too quick and not cinching the knot super tight after the first half hitch process that locks the tension. 99% of the time I can see if one of the wraps is not as tight as the rest I cut it and start over. I also start over if I leave too much of a tag sticking out from the mono to avoid it hitting the guides.

    tc
     
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    PharmDoc

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    Aug 27, 2012
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    Agree with doing the number of wraps you like under good tension, single half hitch, then tighten the knot prior to additional hitches or whatever finish you like. The finish doesn’t add any strength to the knot, but only serves to prevent unraveling over time. A drop of glue to the finish is added insurance. I would avoid glue to the wraps of the knot, as this inhibits the “finger trap” properties of the wraps working together and evenly distributing the stress of the pull.
     
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    PharmDoc

    Master of MyTunaverse
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    Small diameter leaders and thicker braids are a baaaaad combo with the FG (which is my favorite braid to leader connection). Better off using a different knot such as improved Albright or your favorite non-finger trap knot.
     
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    PharmDoc

    Master of MyTunaverse
    Aug 27, 2012
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    Last caveat. Leaders have all different properties, so you need to test any leaders you plan to use, with the knot(s) you plan to use. Test them with slow gradual pulling force and a drag scale to ensure they perform to your expectations. Some leader materials are super slick and hard, making the FG more of a challenge.
     
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