Electric or propane heat?

Discussion in 'Washington Fishing Reports' started by wdlfbio, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. hawksfan75

    hawksfan75 More questions than answers

    Location:
    Kent, WA USA
    Name:
    Eric
    Boat:
    Hydra Sports 2200 DC
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    While we are here, any of you guys service this stuff? My a/c and other stuff could use a tune up.
     
  2. Siv

    Siv I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Normandy Park Wa
    Name:
    Dave
    Boat:
    19' SeaSport
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    I get one bill that is broken out by gas usage and electric usage but PSE is the provider for both. Keep the house at 70 during the day 62 at night. Do plenty of laundry and have a teenager taking 20 min showers . Can’t believe we are that efficient users compared to other guys. I would have to be keeping the house at 80 all the time and doing laundry Nonstop day and night to run up 700$. Glad I have the extra 300/month to buy boat gas and herring.
     
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  3. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

    Location:
    Salem/OR/USA
    Name:
    John
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    53’ Hatteras STEEL N TIME
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    Agree! His 1985 system is crazy inefficient! A 15 year old gas furnace that you have is probably a 90+ percent efficient, (vented through PVC) and if Natural has is available it is a close comparison to heat pump. Propane is not due to the high cost of delivery. So for a rural home a heat pump is a definite way to go...
     
  4. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

    Location:
    Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
    Name:
    Howard
    Boat:
    Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
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    Hydronic is really common in Colorado/Wyoming. I will have it in my dream house. Super stable temps, no noise, super efficient. We had 8 zones (one of which was the domestic hot water with a 80 gallon super insulated tank) We had towel racks heated, the garage floor and 3 feet out from the garage door to keep ice from forming from the car tracks. Once it was dialed in, it was super easy to deal with. We had natural gas. Our entire house (3000sqft) had light weight concrete floors with porcelain tile throughout. NO carpet, no wood. Just some area rugs in the bedrooms/living room. Super easy to keep clean. No dust being kicked around. We kept our garage at 50 degrees, the house at 68 and heated portion of the driveway was running at about 40 degrees.

    The reason it is not more popular is because of the lack of local expertise/experience. It takes more skill.
     
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  5. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

    Location:
    Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
    Name:
    Howard
    Boat:
    Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
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    Barry it is good to see you over here from THT. Hope to see that badass boat this summer!
     
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  6. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

    Location:
    Salem/OR/USA
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    53’ Hatteras STEEL N TIME
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    The reason it isn’t more popular is a lot more than local expertise. Mostly it has to do with building Technics and style in our region. Our mild temperatures is also a contributor. Most housing developments are all about making money and banging out houses.... The cheapest heating system in the city without AC is a gas furnace... done.... Floors are framed of wood, and flooring in the bulk of the house is carpet which is the cheapest. Production builders are all about fast construction to market houses at the highest dollars per square foot and make money. Slab on grade building is just not the norm in the PNW (West side). Most hydronic systems are slab on grade.

    Hydronic heating itself is actually cheap, and easy. It’s a bunch of pex pipe with some manifolds to control the zones, and a water heater to heat the water. Super easy to do and doesn’t take a lot of knowledge. There are many online resources that will design a system and sell you every fitting if you provide them with a set of plans. It’s much more common East of the cascades where the temps drop down. In my area the custom homes that do Slab on grade or the ICF (insulated Concrete Finish) houses tend to do the hydronic.

    It’s more common around here that someone puts hydronic in their shop, because it’s a slab and easy to do and cheap...One zone, pex, water heater and viola your shop is heated... laying on a warm concrete floor while working on you hot rod or boat would be pretty awesome.

    Lastly, if you want AC, you have to install a separate complete system anyhow, so now your costs go up exponentially.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  7. PSULion

    PSULion Newbie

    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    Name:
    Barry
    Boat:
    Hewes, Coldwater
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    Thx Howard, ETA next spring. Homeport at Skyline. Going into the jig starting next week.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  8. Ugly Bayliner

    Ugly Bayliner I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Olympia, Wa USA
    Name:
    Steve Ericsson
    Boat:
    20' Ugly Bayliner
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    A lot of homes in outlying areas do not have access to natural gas, so propane is the only option for gas. We have natural gas so our bills are pretty cheap too, never paid over $300.
     
  9. EJ Swanny

    EJ Swanny I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Redondo/WA
    Name:
    Erik
    Boat:
    "Riley-J" 2006 21' Proline Tourney
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    Have the same set-up as Siv...yeah, it takes a few fans in August....but over-all our heating bills are relatively modest. With two children taking 30 minute showers and not knowing how to turn a light off......
     
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  10. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

    Location:
    Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
    Name:
    Howard
    Boat:
    Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
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    None of the cold weather houses were slab on grade, they all use gypcrete or similar. None used hot water heaters. The real installs/efficient/long lasting installs used modulating condensing boilers with outdoor reset, stainless heat exchangers, variable flow stainless pumps with delta T controlling the water flow. Most of the time the hydronic is only running 90-100, the hot water zone runs hotter. Its a lot more than zone valves to do it right. Ideally there are separate pumps for each zone to maximize heat transfer (small zones flow slower, larger zones flow faster). All varies based on outgoing/return water temps. The super insulated hot water side arms are $2000-$3000 alone.

    I had $10k in parts/valves in the boiler room alone.

    I would agree on the AC being a good reason for a ducted system. I would argue that of you want and long term hydronic system (not a hot water heater in the wrong application) it takes a bit more knowledge.

    https://www.viessmann-us.com/en/residential/gas-boilers/condensing-boilers.html

    https://www.acv.com/us/customer/product/V7YO8yoAAFcERpxY/prestige-acvmax-110

    Those are the two that I have used.
     
  11. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

    Location:
    Salem/OR/USA
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    53’ Hatteras STEEL N TIME
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    Well, once again the cost is a large factor for home sales for the average. Gypcrete overlay adds a significant cost. It also changes a lot of flooring options and install procedures, adding more cost. There are some wood flooring systems with built in grooves to allow the hydronic to be installed.

    In the end it’s not a system for the average home due to the cost, especially if you want AC.... you are essentially installing a complete ducted system and then adding Hydronic.
     
  12. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

    Location:
    Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
    Name:
    Howard
    Boat:
    Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
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    Agreed.

    The comfort level for us makes it super desirable in my dream retirement home. No noise. Stable temps. Yes everything gets hosed up (doors size etc.) Probably never see it in a spec house, only in a contracted house.

    The dry warm towels from the heated towel racks turned dark and dreary days around.
     
    G-Spot likes this.
  13. wdlfbio

    wdlfbio Once you go Cat, you never go back

    Location:
    maple valley, wa
    Name:
    laurence
    Boat:
    2017 LUMACAT 28' Sport
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    So, looks like I’m gonna research an electric heat pump (likely one of the Mitsubishi hyper heat systems) that I can tie into my existing ducting (save money and I’ll check it for insulation/leaks), maybe two zones (upstairs vs down), some AC, and then buy my own 500 gallon propane tank for my on demand hot water (need to save space in the utility room), cook top, patio heater, bbq, and backup generator.
     
    G-Spot likes this.
  14. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

    Location:
    Salem/OR/USA
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    53’ Hatteras STEEL N TIME
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    Great choice. Mitsubishi has been using inverted technology for a long time especially in their min ductless. Keep in mind most manufacturers have the same technology, they just use a catchy name “hyper heat” to draw you like you’re getting something no one else can deliver. In the end, I couple competitive bids from reputable companies with similar equipment would hurt.... Seems many people have their favorite manufacture, but most components are not unique to any given manufacturer..
     
  15. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

    Location:
    Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
    Name:
    Howard
    Boat:
    Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
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    mistu.JPG Spec out coastal construction if you can.. Mitsubishi offers special coatings for areas that see a lot of salt air. Added corrosion protection is worth it anywhere on the wetside in my opinion. This is a clip from the larger models cut sheet. We have been buying the salt-resistant models for improved corrosion resistance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  16. wdlfbio

    wdlfbio Once you go Cat, you never go back

    Location:
    maple valley, wa
    Name:
    laurence
    Boat:
    2017 LUMACAT 28' Sport
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    The house is about 1/2 mile from Nisqually, so ok
     
  17. Waterdog~

    Waterdog~ Just one more

    Location:
    Hollywood
    Name:
    Brian
    Boat:
    Tiderunner
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    Don't call me I know nothing...……...
     
  18. PSULion

    PSULion Newbie

    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    Name:
    Barry
    Boat:
    Hewes, Coldwater
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    You might want to consider purchasing a 1000g tank instead of 500g. Some propane companies will give deeper discounts if you are filling up 700-800+ gallons. Further, if you bury the tank you can fill it up more than exposed tanks due to less room needed for expansion. 1000g buried tanks can be filled to 850g, hopefully allowing you to time your purchase in the summer when rates are lower.
     

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