Double trouble rigging

Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
11,105
6,319
113
Bishop
Name
Steve
Boat
18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
I see the crew members tie a double San Diego knot with my 200 lb topshot to the swivel of my kite leader. I know many guys prefer crimping, but if it's OK for the crew of the Rooster it's OK for me. Besides, kite fishing is not a "quick change" deal like changing jigs or hooks.
 
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Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
11,105
6,319
113
Bishop
Name
Steve
Boat
18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
Couldn’t help but notice, the “no escape” connector is not available from BHP.
 

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
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Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
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Red Rooster
I have the greatest respect for Basil and the products he sells. He does sell the Diamond brand braid so he may not agree with me he does sell that manufacturer brand. Aren't you the clever one Steve...
 

Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
11,105
6,319
113
Bishop
Name
Steve
Boat
18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
Aren't you the clever one Steve...
Why, yes, yes I am! I guess the point, not being clever was simply that a vendor, any vendor, so strongly disapproves of a product that it’s not for sale on his website.
 

Rodless_Jim

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 3, 2008
2,783
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Mexico, DF, Mexico
Name
Jim
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Strictly a Rider
So, just to throw my $0.02 in, for the last few years I have been making my double troubles using these ringed grommets that I get from Basil at BHPtackle.com:



One 5-to-6 foot piece of 200lb fluoro or leader material, centered and crimped on the grommet, with a circle hook crimped on each leg. No leader made this way has ever failed me.

CAVEAT: If you get a good fish, chances are it will pull the legs of the double trouble uneven by about half an inch or so. I have eliminated that in the past by using two crimps in the center, rather than just one. That worked, and I might do it again, but it occurs to me that if I've already caught a big fish on that leader, do I really want to re-use it? I can save and re-use the hooks, the ringed grommet, and if I am really being picky, even the chafe protectors. And I'll trade a 5' piece of fluoro for a big tuna every time.

From the moment I switched to using ringed grommets for my double troubles, I also switched to using snap swivels. I have used and liked McMahon Snaps like these:



Unfortunately, I have only been able to find them up to 150lb test. I know that 150lbs is plenty...even under the most extreme of circumstances (all the way to full trying to stop a fish that is about to spool me) I would be unable to put more than 75 or 80lbs of drag on a fish. And that would indeed be fairly extreme.

Still, the top 400 yards of my spectra is 200lbs, the mono I use (at the request of Excel) is 200lbs, and the leader I use is anywhere from 200-400lbs. I'd prefer my snap swivel to not be the "weakest link." I know, irrational.

Instead, like Bill I have been using these:



And, like Bill, I use pliers to compress the grommet at the center of the jaws, which pretty much makes it impossible for the snap to open on its own. Again, for me this has worked extremely well.

Because I have so much respect for Basil's opinion and experience, I am looking into maybe changing my approach and using a different swivel option (he has a real problem with the Escape Proof snap swivels). In point of fact, I am thinking about making some kite leaders using these swivels:



It's an intriguing idea, not only allowing me to crimp my kite leader to a grommet as I already do, but also allowing me to crimp the leader/swivel directly to my main line (on my kite rig, a top shot of 200lb mono). If I do it right (a whole different story) that would be the most secure setup I can imagine.

For now, though, I make my double troubles with ringed grommets, and I connect them using an Escape Proof swivel.
 
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Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
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Bill Walsh
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Red Rooster
That is how i used to rig my leaders Jim. The No-Escape swivel you pictured is the latest greatest version. The old version from Momoi had a weaker grommet. Was trying to upload a picture sent from a fellow BD that said he has used it for 20 years and your grommet to connect the leaders. I can see an issue with the old ones opening up, but for changing out leaders quick and easy, i have been using it now for a long while.
 
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3GunSalute

Nocturnal Snow Monkey
May 24, 2014
67
198
33
Crowley Lake, CA; Honoka'a, HI
Name
Peter
Boat
14' Valco, Excel
A little off topic. Just wanted to share and this seems a slightly appropriate place.

Last April, in the lower zone, I discovered why this rig is called "double trouble".
Rather, I discovered what the trouble part is all about.
--Doing a loooong (standard for me) stint in jail, frying my brain in that tropical sun, working my baits (horse sardines) like a good little monkey (dance monkey, dance).
Like a mirage, an apparition, white water erupts 20 or 30 yards behind my baits - wtf?
No, wait, there is a churning wake headed for the goods.
Oh, DAMN!!! Two shiny brownish domes, complete with erect sickles are charging-- shoulder to shoulder.
Finally! This is going to happen and I'm getting a goodun!
"KITE GOING DOWN!!!!!"
"WIND , WIND, WIND, WIND,WIND." resounds from behind me.
Just as all comes tight another wake, back, sickle, and all forms (and fast!) 90 degrees to my line...
Yup, you guessed it. Got 'em both!
dbl trbl 2018.jpg

9/0 Mustad Demon 4X circles.
I don't blame the hooks. If "better" hooks had been involved I'm confident something else would have failed with two fatties at once. At least I know my crimps and whatnot were sano.
Sorry for the shadows.
 

yakdout

Professional
Jun 26, 2014
1,355
1,668
113
San Diego
Name
Brandon
Boat
s and hoes
A little off topic. Just wanted to share and this seems a slightly appropriate place.

Last April, in the lower zone, I discovered why this rig is called "double trouble".
Rather, I discovered what the trouble part is all about.
--Doing a loooong (standard for me) stint in jail, frying my brain in that tropical sun, working my baits (horse sardines) like a good little monkey (dance monkey, dance).
Like a mirage, an apparition, white water erupts 20 or 30 yards behind my baits - wtf?
No, wait, there is a churning wake headed for the goods.
Oh, DAMN!!! Two shiny brownish domes, complete with erect sickles are charging-- shoulder to shoulder.
Finally! This is going to happen and I'm getting a goodun!
"KITE GOING DOWN!!!!!"
"WIND , WIND, WIND, WIND,WIND." resounds from behind me.
Just as all comes tight another wake, back, sickle, and all forms (and fast!) 90 degrees to my line...
Yup, you guessed it. Got 'em both!View attachment 943785
9/0 Mustad Demon 4X circles.
I don't blame the hooks. If "better" hooks had been involved I'm confident something else would have failed with two fatties at once. At least I know my crimps and whatnot were sano.
Sorry for the shadows.
I don’t really understand how two fish would change anything as far as the hooks straightening out. As long as you aren’t fishing more than twice the amount of drag when hooking two fish as you would with one fish. Obviously the reel was set high, but for one fish. Not two. Someone enlighten me please

Never mind. Figured it out, fish pull against each other, DUH!
 

3GunSalute

Nocturnal Snow Monkey
May 24, 2014
67
198
33
Crowley Lake, CA; Honoka'a, HI
Name
Peter
Boat
14' Valco, Excel
I had that happen to me 2x. Sucks.
Yes but really no. It kinda sucked but, in my memory it was so damned spectacular to witness! I am glad for the experience. I ended up with a personal best on the trip (avatar-- I'm 6'1" and the fishes tail is barely touching the deck) so it all worked out fine.
P.S. Tim: Thank you for rigging and donating them yummies!
 
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SouthBayKiller

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 27, 2003
6,792
6,759
113
38
Long Beach, CA
Name
Robert
Boat
none
I know this topic is primarily geared towards long range fishing, but with all the big local tuna fishing going I’ve been dabbling more and more here for help. A few months ago I was on a boat that deployed a hand tied double trouble and both ends got bit, one end by a 75lb fish and the other Unknown as the leader popped before we could even get tight on it. This was 200lb spider hitched to the swivel with the legs crimped. I believe the spider hitch was the weak link when pulled in opposing directions by the legs. This makes the ringed grommet options that much more appealing.
 

SouthBayKiller

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 27, 2003
6,792
6,759
113
38
Long Beach, CA
Name
Robert
Boat
none
A little off topic. Just wanted to share and this seems a slightly appropriate place.

Last April, in the lower zone, I discovered why this rig is called "double trouble".
Rather, I discovered what the trouble part is all about.
--Doing a loooong (standard for me) stint in jail, frying my brain in that tropical sun, working my baits (horse sardines) like a good little monkey (dance monkey, dance).
Like a mirage, an apparition, white water erupts 20 or 30 yards behind my baits - wtf?
No, wait, there is a churning wake headed for the goods.
Oh, DAMN!!! Two shiny brownish domes, complete with erect sickles are charging-- shoulder to shoulder.
Finally! This is going to happen and I'm getting a goodun!
"KITE GOING DOWN!!!!!"
"WIND , WIND, WIND, WIND,WIND." resounds from behind me.
Just as all comes tight another wake, back, sickle, and all forms (and fast!) 90 degrees to my line...
Yup, you guessed it. Got 'em both!View attachment 943785
9/0 Mustad Demon 4X circles.
I don't blame the hooks. If "better" hooks had been involved I'm confident something else would have failed with two fatties at once. At least I know my crimps and whatnot were sano.
Sorry for the shadows.
Saw similar happen while bluefin fishing. Saw a huge boil and indicator go down. Wind wind wind and came tight. Not much fighting going on at first, just a lot of weight. The angler kept it tight and reeling it in and eventually got a little drag pulled out. Got it all to the boat very quickly and it was only a 75lb fish and everyone was puzzled until we realized one of the legs was missing, presumably the big one got away.
 

SouthBayKiller

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 27, 2003
6,792
6,759
113
38
Long Beach, CA
Name
Robert
Boat
none
Sounds like a single crimp used for the two legs. Still that is how the boat rigs double trouble.

Here is a really sano way to do the double trouble...

http://www.bhptackle.com/home.php?cat=5
In that case I’m pretty sure it was a spider hitch or surgeons loop in 200lb mono.

Those double grommet swivels do look really nice
 
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JohnTFT

Insomniac
Feb 11, 2007
940
2,435
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The "718"
Name
John
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A big Steel One
The escape proof swivels are made by Centro products in China. They are marketed under many different brands. Never a Momoi product but a Diamond fishing product by HiLiner in Florida.

The opening of those swivels is well documented. When I used them I would put a piece of tubing over the part that opens.

What I dont get is why the need for any snap on a kite rig? Just use a barrel swivel and tie or crimp it on.
 

Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
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Bill Walsh
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Red Rooster
That is what i like about BD. Talk from different viewpoints. I see a product with an issue, which brings up two fixes. And i see an issue with a single crimp for two legs with loss of fish.
 

Rodless_Jim

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 3, 2008
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Mexico, DF, Mexico
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Jim
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Strictly a Rider
That is what i like about BD. Talk from different viewpoints. I see a product with an issue, which brings up two fixes. And i see an issue with a single crimp for two legs with loss of fish.
Why should a single crimp for two legs cause a fish to be lost, Bill? I've been making my double troubles that way for years and the only "issue" I've had is that the leaders single use if you catch a good fish (80lbs+) on a single leg. The crimp holds up very well, but you end up with one leg just a bit longer than the other.

That's not an issue for me since I don't reuse my double trouble leaders after a good fish, but I have discovered that if you use two crimps even a large model doesn't pull the legs uneven.
 
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Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
4,965
5,724
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Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
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Red Rooster
1456886_9240b46e678e0356e39536eaf6fe74da.jpg


While the loss of two fish is here, I might think a lot of stress would be on the crimp if it was a single crimp as the two tuna goes in two different directions. Which might be good in this case but would most defiantly break one leg and possibly stress the other leg in to failure later in the fight. Just my view.
 
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Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
4,965
5,724
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66
Chino Hills, Ca.
Name
Bill Walsh
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Red Rooster
Well just a talk since another poster brought up that a really big fish and a small 70# fish were hooked up. and the 70# fish was the one that was landed and the single crimp double trouble had one leg missing.

Oops.. that was a spider hitch, but you get the idea.
 
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Rodless_Jim

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 3, 2008
2,783
1,945
113
Mexico, DF, Mexico
Name
Jim
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Strictly a Rider
Well just a talk since another poster brought up that a really big fish and a small 70# fish were hooked up. and the 70# fish was the one that was landed and the single crimp double trouble had one leg missing.

Oops.. that was a spider hitch, but you get the idea.
Oh! I read that too, but it wasn't about a crimp, so...

I've been using the ringed grommets and to me they seem even more secure than simply a crimp making a loop. I could be wrong (as you have probably noticed, I am wrong about many things!), but that's my impression.

On my last cow trip I had a crimp fail, and it cost me what seemed to be a very big fish. The failure was my fault...I didn't use the correct tool, and even though I had doubts about the crimp when I looked at it, I used it anyway. The fundamental error is that I have the correct swaging tool, but chose to leave it behind.

That'll never happen again.