Double trouble rigging

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by Shanethelipripper, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. ifish42na

    ifish42na No Bad Days

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    Basil
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    No, no. No point in explaining it, move on to a better way to rig. Let go, your failure awaits you if you persist. Use them for a long time until the one time when they bite you. I hope you can come on here and defend it after that. Toss 'em, better ways to go.
     
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  2. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    Persist i will, and if asked how do you fix that problem with the no-escape opening up i will be happy to show them. I learn from your mistake, thanks...
     
  3. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ natural born jig slingers

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    .
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    I dont know what the open up failure rate is. I have used them but just a single to change out different type of leaders for different types of kite baits. I was taught to use duck bill plyers and pinch it tighter. So it wont open. Not sure how much that helps

    Only have a 209, 196, and like 2 170s on them. But the 196 was on a Penn 80 and 300 lb fluoro. Slow troll kite with a dead flyer, 20/0 circle, so when the line came tight there was allot of pressure as the boat was moving forward. Very radical. If I had a failure it would be mentioned. I'm not trying to start a argument just stating my personal experience, like a conversation in real life. That's all :)

    If I had, saw, knew of failures and why, I would re think it for sure
     
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  4. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    YMMV but when i heard of the opening up issue, what i did was to pinch the grommet that holds the two pieces together. Too much and it will make it really hard to open. I think i got a 300# tuna on it but use it on every kite turn and have killed a lot of big fish on it. Trip before last the ball bearing froze up winding a shark but up to then that swivel served me well.

    Tried a pig tail last year, a 450#, but what i thought would be easy turned out to be a real pain as the leader swivel would get stuck. Andy wanted them for the trolling lures but same problem there too. I have seen those big Aussie snaps fail. Melton has the No-Escape singles 300# six for 25 bucks. They carry the Diamond brand and are different than the original ones i bought as they have an indent feel that they have to pass before they open up. (Improved?) The old ones were Momoi.
     
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  5. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ natural born jig slingers

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    .
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    I really dont know. A possible problem I see with using two is if two fish are hooked and one fish is tiny and the other is large? Then maybe they could get locked up on each other forcing one to open. You know allot more then me. Just chatting possible rare scenario. Thanks for all the info that I see for the first time

    2 big fish hooked its most likely over before it begins. So that case is out the window
     
  6. Atuna

    Atuna Salt

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    Ha! I just like to keep it as simple and bulletproof as possible.
    zero failures...
    DblTrouble.JPG
     
  7. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    I see the crew members tie a double San Diego knot with my 200 lb topshot to the swivel of my kite leader. I know many guys prefer crimping, but if it's OK for the crew of the Rooster it's OK for me. Besides, kite fishing is not a "quick change" deal like changing jigs or hooks.
     
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  8. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

    Location:
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    Couldn’t help but notice, the “no escape” connector is not available from BHP.
     
  9. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    I have the greatest respect for Basil and the products he sells. He does sell the Diamond brand braid so he may not agree with me he does sell that manufacturer brand. Aren't you the clever one Steve...
     
  10. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

    Location:
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    Why, yes, yes I am! I guess the point, not being clever was simply that a vendor, any vendor, so strongly disapproves of a product that it’s not for sale on his website.
     
  11. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    So, just to throw my $0.02 in, for the last few years I have been making my double troubles using these ringed grommets that I get from Basil at BHPtackle.com:

    [​IMG]

    One 5-to-6 foot piece of 200lb fluoro or leader material, centered and crimped on the grommet, with a circle hook crimped on each leg. No leader made this way has ever failed me.

    CAVEAT: If you get a good fish, chances are it will pull the legs of the double trouble uneven by about half an inch or so. I have eliminated that in the past by using two crimps in the center, rather than just one. That worked, and I might do it again, but it occurs to me that if I've already caught a big fish on that leader, do I really want to re-use it? I can save and re-use the hooks, the ringed grommet, and if I am really being picky, even the chafe protectors. And I'll trade a 5' piece of fluoro for a big tuna every time.

    From the moment I switched to using ringed grommets for my double troubles, I also switched to using snap swivels. I have used and liked McMahon Snaps like these:

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, I have only been able to find them up to 150lb test. I know that 150lbs is plenty...even under the most extreme of circumstances (all the way to full trying to stop a fish that is about to spool me) I would be unable to put more than 75 or 80lbs of drag on a fish. And that would indeed be fairly extreme.

    Still, the top 400 yards of my spectra is 200lbs, the mono I use (at the request of Excel) is 200lbs, and the leader I use is anywhere from 200-400lbs. I'd prefer my snap swivel to not be the "weakest link." I know, irrational.

    Instead, like Bill I have been using these:

    [​IMG]

    And, like Bill, I use pliers to compress the grommet at the center of the jaws, which pretty much makes it impossible for the snap to open on its own. Again, for me this has worked extremely well.

    Because I have so much respect for Basil's opinion and experience, I am looking into maybe changing my approach and using a different swivel option (he has a real problem with the Escape Proof snap swivels). In point of fact, I am thinking about making some kite leaders using these swivels:

    [​IMG]

    It's an intriguing idea, not only allowing me to crimp my kite leader to a grommet as I already do, but also allowing me to crimp the leader/swivel directly to my main line (on my kite rig, a top shot of 200lb mono). If I do it right (a whole different story) that would be the most secure setup I can imagine.

    For now, though, I make my double troubles with ringed grommets, and I connect them using an Escape Proof swivel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  12. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    That is how i used to rig my leaders Jim. The No-Escape swivel you pictured is the latest greatest version. The old version from Momoi had a weaker grommet. Was trying to upload a picture sent from a fellow BD that said he has used it for 20 years and your grommet to connect the leaders. I can see an issue with the old ones opening up, but for changing out leaders quick and easy, i have been using it now for a long while.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  13. 3GunSalute

    3GunSalute Nocturnal Snow Monkey

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    Peter
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    A little off topic. Just wanted to share and this seems a slightly appropriate place.

    Last April, in the lower zone, I discovered why this rig is called "double trouble".
    Rather, I discovered what the trouble part is all about.
    --Doing a loooong (standard for me) stint in jail, frying my brain in that tropical sun, working my baits (horse sardines) like a good little monkey (dance monkey, dance).
    Like a mirage, an apparition, white water erupts 20 or 30 yards behind my baits - wtf?
    No, wait, there is a churning wake headed for the goods.
    Oh, DAMN!!! Two shiny brownish domes, complete with erect sickles are charging-- shoulder to shoulder.
    Finally! This is going to happen and I'm getting a goodun!
    "KITE GOING DOWN!!!!!"
    "WIND , WIND, WIND, WIND,WIND." resounds from behind me.
    Just as all comes tight another wake, back, sickle, and all forms (and fast!) 90 degrees to my line...
    Yup, you guessed it. Got 'em both! dbl trbl 2018.jpg
    9/0 Mustad Demon 4X circles.
    I don't blame the hooks. If "better" hooks had been involved I'm confident something else would have failed with two fatties at once. At least I know my crimps and whatnot were sano.
    Sorry for the shadows.
     
  14. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    I had that happen to me 2x. Sucks.
     
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  15. yakdout

    yakdout Professional

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    I don’t really understand how two fish would change anything as far as the hooks straightening out. As long as you aren’t fishing more than twice the amount of drag when hooking two fish as you would with one fish. Obviously the reel was set high, but for one fish. Not two. Someone enlighten me please

    Never mind. Figured it out, fish pull against each other, DUH!
     
  16. 3GunSalute

    3GunSalute Nocturnal Snow Monkey

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    Yes but really no. It kinda sucked but, in my memory it was so damned spectacular to witness! I am glad for the experience. I ended up with a personal best on the trip (avatar-- I'm 6'1" and the fishes tail is barely touching the deck) so it all worked out fine.
    P.S. Tim: Thank you for rigging and donating them yummies!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  17. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    Love the top water bite.
     
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  18. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I know this topic is primarily geared towards long range fishing, but with all the big local tuna fishing going I’ve been dabbling more and more here for help. A few months ago I was on a boat that deployed a hand tied double trouble and both ends got bit, one end by a 75lb fish and the other Unknown as the leader popped before we could even get tight on it. This was 200lb spider hitched to the swivel with the legs crimped. I believe the spider hitch was the weak link when pulled in opposing directions by the legs. This makes the ringed grommet options that much more appealing.
     
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  19. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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  20. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Saw similar happen while bluefin fishing. Saw a huge boil and indicator go down. Wind wind wind and came tight. Not much fighting going on at first, just a lot of weight. The angler kept it tight and reeling it in and eventually got a little drag pulled out. Got it all to the boat very quickly and it was only a 75lb fish and everyone was puzzled until we realized one of the legs was missing, presumably the big one got away.
     

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