Double over wraps

GClev

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Nov 21, 2015
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Gary C
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HMS Hotspur
One under and two over has pretty much been standard stuff on boat rods for at least 50 years.
 
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lowprofile

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Dec 11, 2011
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chris
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Sold it
I tried single over on a couple 80 and 130 rods and they are fine. Double might make you feel better.
 
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GClev

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Nov 21, 2015
159
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LA County
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Gary C
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HMS Hotspur
How many coats of 2-part finish? It depends on the thread, the number of wraps, the size of the rod, and the viscosity of the 2-part finish, along with the temperature of the room, and whether or not you dilute your finish with a few drops of solvent or not, which I usually do for the first coat.

Seeker, in their online video, coats the underwrap with 2-part first, wraps the guides, and then coats them again using Classic Super Coat. They brush it on thick, brush it off, and hit it with a propane torch. Classic Super Coat has a high boiling point.

Many have recommended an A underwrap and D overwrap so the grooves in the wrap don't line up and let the over cut into the under. Makes sense, and that sounds like a great idea.

I didn't have the benefit of You Tube or the internet and have been using Flex Coat since it first came on the scene in the late '60s. Some of my first rods were varnished. I also worked out my own method with practice and it probably will be different from others. Somehow I've always manged to put two over and one under without one layer of thread cutting into the layer under it. So I start with three layers of uncoated D thread and usually use no color preserver. The first coat should wet the thread through to the rod. Flex coat is lower boiling. Most of the bubbles come out just by breathing on it. An alcohol flame will remove the stubborn ones. Be careful with the alcohol. Some brands of 2-part fish eye around alcohol. High-build 2-part is a newer product. I still prefer multiple coats of a thinner product. That is a personal choice. A good finish has enough 2-part to build a solid base at the inner part of the guide feet, but not so much to look like a big clump under the guide, and it has no bubbles in it. I usually put just enough on it to make the texture of the wrap disappear. However some guys lay it on thick. You may be able to do it in two coats. Others may need five or even six.

Here's the thing about rod building... not everyone does it same way. There is no perfectly right or wrong method. Whether you use A or D size thread, Flex Coat or Classic, single, double or triple wrap, a tiny brush, putty knife, or a 1" brush, a propane torch or your own wet breath, you can still build a good rod. My way is not the only way and I always appreciate input from everyone. If one closes his mind to new ideas, or is adamant that someone on the internet is wrong and must get fixed, one could get stuck in a nasty rut. I always have room for improvement.
 
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FAT CAT

FAT CAT
Nov 11, 2007
8,889
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Baja Sur, MX
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Bill Burkett
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22' Twin-Vee Catamaran POLE CAT
Well said Gary.

As an example of how we all do it differently, I coat each layer of thread with a light coat of finish, mostly for the same reasons as Gary stated.

A closed mind gathers no light.
 
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DocSki

Captain
Mar 24, 2007
3,676
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James(Doc Ski)Labanowski
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17' Carolina Skiff
I often have done double overwraps. Not sure it is needed but I do it a lot. Also is nice to get to use more color combinations. As stated earlier---Lots of ways to skin a cat and many of them work just fine. Get your niche and run with it.
 
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GClev

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Nov 21, 2015
159
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Gary C
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HMS Hotspur
Wow...Thanks gclev! Currently I'm using thread master 2 part finish. I'm going to try your advice

For a heavy saltwater boat rod, I would recommend a combination of the available advice based on Seeker and others instead of "my way." It appears that the generally accepted method is a size A underwrap treated with a single coat of low-build 2-part finish diluted with just a drop or two of acetone or methyl ethyl ketone. Then wrap the guides with size D either single or double. I have zero experience with thread master. It probably has a low boiling temperature and it's best to err on the side of caution. Do not dilute your finish coats with solvent. Try exhaling on it first to remove bubbles. Then use the alcohol torch or lamp very sparingly, as little as possible. It helps the finish flow and removes stubborn bubbles. Leave the propane torch for Seeker.

I discovered by crowdsourcing the internet that many folks use the speed wrapper for the underwrap only and wrap the guides by hand. There is a big difference between hand wraps, speed wraps with a bobbin, and speed wraps running the thread through your fingers. I use the latter method, running the thread through my fingers with no bobbin and simultaneously pack the thread with the opposite thumbnail. Little burnishing is needed later. That's the reason I don't cut into the lower layers; my wraps are tight. But seriously, it isn't easy, nor is it for everyone. The Seeker tour guide, in those great videos I found on BD or You-Tube?, said it can take two full weeks of training and practice before someone becomes proficient wrapping with a machine.

I also discovered from the web that most guys seem to prep or grind guide feet. I never grind guide feet, even the crude ones. That comes from experience using Perfection guides long ago when they were the only choice, chrome over bronze wire, and that when ground some blue corrosion would bleed through after a year of hard use in saltwater. Not grinding left the chrome intact. Now, especially with black or vapor deposition guides, I continue to refuse to grind anything that might compromise corrosion resistance or finish. Instead, I taught myself thread technique, climbing up over the guide foot cautiously followed by some careful burnishing afterward. Double wraps are good for that too, hiding lumpy feet.

Finally, while I deeply appreciate DocSki's artful and gorgeous detail work, for my own rods, I treat them like tools and carry way too many. I will probably be the only guy on the boat with most of his rods wrapped in utilitarian black on black. That started when I was too broke to buy colored thread. I continued the existential black on black theme because it holds the guides as well as any color, camouflages any small flaw, and makes shopping much easier. I'd also like to think no one would steal such an ugly rod, but that theory has failed a few times.

Someone else must be your source for information on color preserver. I use it sparingly, or not at all.

I'm sure all this info is available elsewhere and there are certainly better ideas and methods than my own. I'm too far gone to actually remember what it's like to be new at it again. And maybe this will provoke some of the tradesmen who inhabit this forum to give you the benefit of their far better advice.
 
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DocSki

Captain
Mar 24, 2007
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James(Doc Ski)Labanowski
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17' Carolina Skiff
I'm sure all this info is available elsewhere and there are certainly better ideas and methods than my own. I'm too far gone to actually remember what it's like to be new at it again. And maybe this will provoke some of the tradesmen who inhabit this forum to give you the benefit of their far better advice.

Here is my usual advice I give everyone both old and new to rod building. Read Everything and view every video you can, they try everything. One thing I have found out in my trip thru rod building not everything works for everyone.
The way I put finish on works for me and maybe a few others but I also know many it doesnt work for. Same with every aspect of rod building. Now once you have found something that ends up how you want it then just stick with it because not every thing new works as promoted. After some time in this craft you develop a style that will almost become your signature. Many of us old timers want to help new folks get thru the learning curves quicker but sometimes failure is one of the best teachers. What I hate seeing happen is that new builders get so scared they are doing something wrong that it stops being fun-----that is when it is time to walk away. Bottom line you want to build a device that transports line from the reel out the tip to the fish. Man it sure aint rocket science. Have fun with it and post results both good and bad. Sometimes I have learned more and get more ideas from new builders the the old pros.
 
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Capt Richie

Atlantic Custom Tackle
Aug 10, 2008
3,999
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Richie
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32 albe
Nice post Gary..I'm with you with wrapping guides on using your fingers & not a thread carriage ...Much more control ...

I don't use a carriage for anything ....Old school spool on the floor ...
 
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aussiefisho

Always learning to fish smarter.
May 19, 2011
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Russell Iles
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Sold
Take a bow all of you.
I have no intention of ever building a rod, but what a discussion with so much knowledge.
I love Bloody Decks.
 
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JTrelikes

I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Oct 3, 2006
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    Jim Trelikes
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    I learned how to wrap without a thread carriage. But graduated to one many years ago when I bought the Clemens lathe that I'm still using to this day. While I have total respect to any other long time builders for the methods they adopt and feel comfortable using. .....my style in the craft would be much more difficult, and far less productive without the use of the thread carriage.
     
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