Dive boat conception investigation

marlyn

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Dec 18, 2005
8,498
2,748
oak hills
Name
mark
Boat
21' skiff and 12' portabote recycled from milk jugs

Laukia

boss
Nov 30, 2004
931
291
Carpinteria
Name
Dave R
Boat
28' Carolina Classic
Sea Landing/Truth Aquatics asked a judge to throw out the lawsuit a couple weeks ago. 150 year old insurance relic article of law seems relevant to the boat owners. Not so much to the survivors of the dead. These people must think they're special. Now they're claiming their sportboats are open for business. San Diego must have missed that part.
 

jbl_91762

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 23, 2017
199
81
50
CHINO
Name
JOEY
Boat
KAYAK

Thought i would post this up,all died from carbon monoxide poisoning and deaths are considered accidental.
RIP to all who passed.
I pray that is how they passed and did not suffer burning as that would have been unimaginable suffering. RIP
 

r8rs4lf

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 17, 2017
2,186
1,293
47
Tree Juan ho
Name
Al
Boat
Salty AF
Fucking sad!!! I can't even imagine what they must have went through.

RIP to them all!
 

Kin

o_O
Oct 10, 2010
262
50
San Gabriel
Name
Kin
Boat
ODC 420
Death by carbon monoxide, but who knows how long they were conscious before that. Investigators found some with shoes on, one holding a cell phone and another holding a flash light...RIP.
 

swami 805

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 9, 2016
3,191
3,884
65
805
Name
Bill
Boat
sunk it
Other than sharing the landing the stardust/coral sea are not afffliated with the dive operation, two entirely different operations and owners.
So many lives ruined in such a preventable tragedy
 

Yellowtail Dan

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 10, 2006
3,005
2,904
52
Roseville Ca
Name
Dan
Boat
Excel, American Angler
I am surprised we haven't heard the conclusions of Prowler v. Attessa IV, or perhaps I missed it. Lamo hasn't been around (unless I also missed that) -- perhaps he got rich and retired.
I think I saw him running down the I-5 chasing an ambulance a few weeks ago.
 

Done_Deal

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 10, 2004
568
243
Santa Monica
mysite.verizon.net
Name
Joe
Boat
19' Home Built
A finding of accidental does not imply or negate gross negligence on the part of the boat owner or crew. Also from some research I did on another matter, it appears that death by carbon monoxide poisoning is painful. The research was for methods to dispatch pests in California and carbon monoxide gas is considered inhumane, and therefor illegal, whereas some other gases such a carbon dioxide are OK.
 

Sandydog

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 18, 2017
170
381
51
Dana Point, CA
Name
John Kim
Boat
n/a
Death by carbon monoxide, but who knows how long they were conscious before that. Investigators found some with shoes on, one holding a cell phone and another holding a flash light...RIP.
The L.A. Times article has a little more detail:

Most of those killed had carbon monoxide saturation of 50% to 80%. But a few, like the woman with the flashlight, had less. Her test revealed more than 10% carbon monoxide after her body was recovered. Carbon monoxide binds with hemoglobin far better than oxygen, preventing the delivery of oxygen. Usually 50% is fatal, but small levels can be in some circumstances.
Do note that more energy is released when a fire forms carbon dioxide rather than carbon monoxide So whenever there's sufficient oxygen, a fire will always prefer to burn to create carbon dioxide (this is why carbon monoxide poisoning is rare with diesel engines - they tend to run lean, with lots of air and little fuel). A fire begins to form more carbon monoxide when it's having difficulty finding enough oxygen. That's why high carbon monixide levels suggest they died in their sleep due to a prolonged, smoldering fire which gradually consumed all the oxygen in an enclosed space (their sleeping quarters).

A finding of accidental does not imply or negate gross negligence on the part of the boat owner or crew. Also from some research I did on another matter, it appears that death by carbon monoxide poisoning is painful. The research was for methods to dispatch pests in California and carbon monoxide gas is considered inhumane, and therefor illegal, whereas some other gases such a carbon dioxide are OK.
Carbon dioxide is what creates the sensation of needing to breathe. When you hold your breath, the urge to breathe comes from buildup of CO2 in your lungs. So your body has a built-in safety mechanism for detecting excess amounts of CO2 when it's used as a method of pest control (or fire suppression) in occupied spaces. The urge is so strong that most people can barely hold their breath for a minute, when a single breath of air actually contains enough oxygen to keep you alive for about 3-7 minutes. (Complete oxygen deprivation will render you unconscious in about 10 seconds, and kill you within a minute.)

Carbon monoxide is bad because you can't sense it. You don't know when you're being poisoned by it. So of course it's stupid to use it to kill pests - you could unwittingly kill yourself or others. It is painless, aside from potentially giving you a headache in low concentrations due to the brain being starved of oxygen (same kind of headache you get when oxygen levels are lowered, as is sometimes done aboard transcontinental flights).

It functions much like cyanide, which was deemed humane enough to use in executions. Both cyanide and carbon monoxide preferentially bind with hemoglobin so that oxygen can't, negating your blood's ability to carry oxygen. At that point it's much like bleeding to death, which people report as feeling like falling asleep (aside from the possible headache). People who have recovered from carbon monoxide poisoning report feeling groggy and not really comprehending what's going on. Your mental faculties are diminished due to your brain not getting enough oxygen. That's why carbon monoxide alarms are so important. Even if you remember everything I just wrote, your brain may be too impaired to recognize that's what's happening if you're suffering carbon monoxide poisoning. But it takes almost no thinking to realize that a smoke/CO alarm going off means get out.
 

One_Leg

Ret. Comm. Diver Medic
May 11, 2007
5,235
1,599
You're mined!
www.csicop.org
Name
Alan
Boat
1967 Cobia Cuddy Cabin/Evinrude Looper
I love the sound and feel of wooden vessels and have dove and fished aboard many of them.

But my favorite dive boat, Spectre, was a former oil rig supply boat, originally named John Brown.

Her hull was being constructed entirely of aluminum at the same time her future Captain, Ted Cumming, was skippering Landing Craft in the Mekong Delta. Ted's son now runs the boat.

Ted always ran a tight ship and his attention to detail was unparalleled.

He mounted a pair of Weber grills on the STRBD rail and would grill up chicken while divers were were in the water. If you think boat burgers are good, I am sure that most of you would love freshly Bar-B Que'd chicken while on the water.


Aluminum boats rarely, if ever, burn to the waterline.

My thoughts go out to the deceased and their families and friends.
 

kevina

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 10, 2006
1,959
1,324
93
redondo beach
Name
kev
Boat
25' aqua sport
The L.A. Times article has a little more detail:


Do note that more energy is released when a fire forms carbon dioxide rather than carbon monoxide So whenever there's sufficient oxygen, a fire will always prefer to burn to create carbon dioxide (this is why carbon monoxide poisoning is rare with diesel engines - they tend to run lean, with lots of air and little fuel). A fire begins to form more carbon monoxide when it's having difficulty finding enough oxygen. That's why high carbon monixide levels suggest they died in their sleep due to a prolonged, smoldering fire which gradually consumed all the oxygen in an enclosed space (their sleeping quarters).


Carbon dioxide is what creates the sensation of needing to breathe. When you hold your breath, the urge to breathe comes from buildup of CO2 in your lungs. So your body has a built-in safety mechanism for detecting excess amounts of CO2 when it's used as a method of pest control (or fire suppression) in occupied spaces. The urge is so strong that most people can barely hold their breath for a minute, when a single breath of air actually contains enough oxygen to keep you alive for about 3-7 minutes. (Complete oxygen deprivation will render you unconscious in about 10 seconds, and kill you within a minute.)

Carbon monoxide is bad because you can't sense it. You don't know when you're being poisoned by it. So of course it's stupid to use it to kill pests - you could unwittingly kill yourself or others. It is painless, aside from potentially giving you a headache in low concentrations due to the brain being starved of oxygen (same kind of headache you get when oxygen levels are lowered, as is sometimes done aboard transcontinental flights).

It functions much like cyanide, which was deemed humane enough to use in executions. Both cyanide and carbon monoxide preferentially bind with hemoglobin so that oxygen can't, negating your blood's ability to carry oxygen. At that point it's much like bleeding to death, which people report as feeling like falling asleep (aside from the possible headache). People who have recovered from carbon monoxide poisoning report feeling groggy and not really comprehending what's going on. Your mental faculties are diminished due to your brain not getting enough oxygen. That's why carbon monoxide alarms are so important. Even if you remember everything I just wrote, your brain may be too impaired to recognize that's what's happening if you're suffering carbon monoxide poisoning. But it takes almost no thinking to realize that a smoke/CO alarm going off means get out.
So why don't they switch to Carbon Monoxide for the death penalty, It seems that Electric shock and the other methods that are used are more inhumane?? Give them their meal and just as there finishing up their dessert pump in the in the Carbon Monoxide at least they will die somewhat peacefully instead of getting fried, etc
 
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Sandydog

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 18, 2017
170
381
51
Dana Point, CA
Name
John Kim
Boat
n/a
So why don't they switch to Carbon Monoxide for the death penalty, It seems that Electric shock and the other methods that are used are more inhumane?? Give them their meal and just as there finishing up their dessert pump in the in the Carbon Monoxide at least they will die instead of getting fried, etc
Because of its danger if it should escape containment. Three is no "antidote" for carbon monoxide poisoning. You just have to breathe regular air (or pure oxygen) long enough for random high-velocity oxygen molecules to knock the carbon monoxide molecules off your hemoglobin. Which can take several hours. I suppose a blood transfusion would help. OTOH, cyanide is a gas that's released when mixing two compounds, so it can be transported relatively safely and produced on demand.

If you want to execute people humanely, you don't need use exotic chemicals. All you need to do is remove the oxygen. Most animals, including people, can't sense a lack of oxygen (some swimming mammals can). Probably the simplest and easiest method is to just flood the gas chamber with nitrogen gas. It's cheap, inert (makes up 78% of the air we breathe), and readily available. If you displace all the oxygen in the chamber, the prisoner will go unconscious in less than a minute, followed by death within a few minutes. People have killed themselves this way.


Video of a NASA researcher exposed to pure vacuum. He dropped unconscious within about 10 seconds. (The vacuum removed all the residual air in his lungs. Air that would remain to oxygenate your blood for a while if you were immersed in pure nitrogen.)

Lethal injection seems to be preferred because (if it works properly) it can cause loss of consciousness within seconds.
 

Mr. DRE

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 23, 2019
298
225
50
West Hills, CA
Name
Andre
Boat
Private
How times have changed. I remember years ago going albacore fishing up in Morro Bay (can't recall the boat) but they used to have a wood burning fire pit in the back. At dinner time they would uncover the fire pit, light it up and throw the steaks on. True story, that along w/sleeping in hammocks instead of bunks.
 
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BiggestT

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 8, 2004
12,743
7,906
Fullerton
Name
SM
Boat
Salsipuedes & Czech Mate
That was probably the admiral, an old oil crew boat. I used to go on their 2 day cod trips when the limit was 15 cod and 5 lings per day. Those steaks tasted pretty damm good too
Rode the Admiral once for albacore. The bunkhouse was a vomitorium on the way out. Biggest seas I’ve ever fished in. The deck was also the highest off the water I ever fished.
 
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sickcat

Silverback
Aug 5, 2003
3,258
1,281
63
LA
Name
Kerry
Boat
Yellow spot
Rode the Admiral once for albacore. The bunkhouse was a vomitorium on the way out. Biggest seas I’ve ever fished in. The deck was also the highest off the water I ever fished.
Yep - the Admiral had a pretty good speed but you payed for it with that narrow beam.

If you fell in the water you might not make it back up to that deck :D
 
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BiggestT

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 8, 2004
12,743
7,906
Fullerton
Name
SM
Boat
Salsipuedes & Czech Mate
Yep - the Admiral had a pretty good speed but you payed for it with that narrow beam.

If you fell in the water you might not make it back up to that deck :D
The seas were so big the trolling lines would be stretched in the air between waves. I was out there for those bigger 60 lb albies they used to get. Indeed the boat landed two that day that went 58 and 60. No bait fish, though the anchovies were the size of small creek trout.
 
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