Death by internet, make it a double.

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Saluki

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May 10, 2003
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I hate to weigh in on this but....

When I was a kid, me and my pellet gun killed an awful lot of birds. I equate this to the varmint hunters--killing for killing's sake.

Fast forward 20+ years and I now have 2 parrots as pets. I couldn't imagine going out and shooting birds for fun just to 'kill sumthin'. Killing to eat? That's different. It's about survival, to some degree. I may not kill the chickens I eat but I would if I had to. I think that some of the people that go out and kill shit just to watch it die are either mentally disturbed or never 'growed up'. I know that I've long since moved past that.

Seeing people go out in the hills and kill hundreds or thousands of squirrels, birds or other critters just to watch their bodies explode is no different than the boats that go out and plug the trashcans with barracuda. You and I know that most of those fish are gonna end up in a trashcan--it's just a waste. And there's plenty of fisherman on this site who've decried THAT practice.



I think Charles and I are twins.
Ditto on everything you just said!
 

FishStalker

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I really don't know what to say about this thread ecept there are some folks here who are making uneducated statements and live in a box!

I'm a bird hunter, but hunting is hunting! I read as much as possible and talk to as many bilogist and game wardens as possible about wildlife management.

Coyotes, Badgers, Racoons and ground squirrles(SP) play hell on birds, epsecially upland and waterfowl, ground squirrles are the worst.

When hunting mountain lions was legal here in California, we had a growing big horn sheep population, since the ban, the sheep populations has been devastated.

In South Dakota, their DFG has hired guns who shoot coyotes and any other varmint from a slow flying Cessna, South Dakota has some of the best hunting in the country. If predators and varmints are kept in check certain bird or animals population can be devastated.

So those of you who think I'm wrong, hop in the water and give that seal a loving hug while he's gulping down your jack pot cbass.
The whole "we need to kill the predators to protect the other wildlife" argument is bullshit and you know it.

These simplistic views about ecosystem management are as silly as the ones the tree huggers espouse.

Perhaps you ought to do some reading about what happened to the ecosystem in Yellowstone when we removed all the predators (wolves). Now that the wolves have been reintroduced, not only are the Elk herds healthier but so are the aspen trees that the unchecked Elk populations were destroying.

Wolves Are Rebalancing Yellowstone Ecosystem
 

Smudge

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I'm just a deckhand...
The whole "we need to kill the predators to protect the other wildlife" argument is bullshit and you know it.

These simplistic views about ecosystem management are as silly as the ones the tree huggers espouse.

Perhaps you ought to do some reading about what happened to the ecosystem in Yellowstone when we removed all the predators (wolves). Now that the wolves have been reintroduced, not only are the Elk herds healthier but so are the aspen trees that the unchecked Elk populations were destroying.

Wolves Are Rebalancing Yellowstone Ecosystem

There's no hunting in Yellowstone Chuck. Without the wolves there was no predator balance. You have to look at the situation from a broader perspective. Yellowstone is not an analogue of the ballance of the United States by any stretch.

Hunters as a whole are the best stewards for this resource in the same way that fishermen are the best stewards for the fishing resource.


There are bad, immoral, wateful hunters. There are bad, immoral, wasteful fishermen too. But as a community we are each better in tune with our respective environments than any under paid, under staffed, under resourced government entity.

Look at MLPA's...
 

KID CREOLE

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The whole "we need to kill the predators to protect the other wildlife" argument is bullshit and you know it.

These simplistic views about ecosystem management are as silly as the ones the tree huggers espouse.

Perhaps you ought to do some reading about what happened to the ecosystem in Yellowstone when we removed all the predators (wolves). Now that the wolves have been reintroduced, not only are the Elk herds healthier but so are the aspen trees that the unchecked Elk populations were destroying.

Wolves Are Rebalancing Yellowstone Ecosystem
You are 100% right about the Elk in Yellowstone, they had become OVERPOPULATED because the wolves were wiped out by people who had intrest in cattle sales.

The same can't be said about the mountain lions here in California can it?
 

speedgoat

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I doubt that any of the people here that are offended by killing varmints have ever earned a dime by working land or raising animals. Your arguments sound like those of the typical Southern California city-bred NIMBY. You have no frame of reference for understanding the "why", so therefore it must be bad, right? Hey, let's just make it illegal? Fucking judgemental ignorance of the first order.

Try earning your living as a rancher or farmer for a little while and then let's talk about the evils of varmint eradication. You think the beef ranchers that supply your supermarket steak for you are for killing coyotes, badgers, prairie-dogs etc.? You bet your ass they are. You think that's just because they enjoy killing stuff, or is there an underlying productive reason for it?

The adverse affects these critters have on the populations of other game animals have already been pointed out by other people, as have the disease aspects.

If you were anything more than an armchair hunter you would understand why these types of varmints are targeted.
 

FishStalker

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You are 100% right about the Elk in Yellowstone, they had become OVERPOPULATED because the wolves were wiped out by people who had intrest in cattle sales.

The same can't be said about the mountain lions here in California can it?
The mountain lion (as well as coyote) 'problem' is because people have been encroaching into more remote areas and forcing the predators into smaller and smaller territories and increasing the likelihood of contact with humans. Add some drought and fires and it's an obvious recipe for disaster when the animals are trying to find food.

Think about it, if you were in the middle of nowhere, hungry and tired and found some easy pickings in the form of some chickens or goats and you killed one to avoid starvation, should we kill YOU?
 

johnnylite

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I doubt that any of the people here that are offended by killing varmints have ever earned a dime by working land or raising animals. Your arguments sound like those of the typical Southern California city-bred nimby. You have no frame of reference for understanding the "why", so therefore it must be bad, right? Hey, let's just make it illegal? Fucking judgemental ignorance of the first order.

Try earning your living as a rancher or farmer for a little while and then let's talk about the evils of varmint eradication. You think the beef ranchers that supply your supermarket steak for you are for killing coyotes, badgers, prairie-dogs etc.? You bet your ass they are. You think that's just because they enjoy killing stuff, or is there an underlying productive reason for it?

The adverse affects these critters have on the populations of other game animals have already been pointed out by other people, as have the disease aspects.

If you were anything more than an armchair hunter you would understand why these types of varmints are targeted.
You do a lot of farming there in Point Loma?
This is an opinion board. Everybody gets a turn.
 

Deno

NO SHENANIGANS....
Jun 23, 2006
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The problem with Mountain lion is that the fucken tree huggers won’t let us kill them.



The mountain lion (as well as coyote) 'problem' is because people have been encroaching into more remote areas and forcing the predators into smaller and smaller territories and increasing the likelihood of contact with humans. Add some drought and fires and it's an obvious recipe for disaster when the animals are trying to find food.

Think about it, if you were in the middle of nowhere, hungry and tired and found some easy pickings in the form of some chickens or goats and you killed one to avoid starvation, should we kill YOU?
 

Kareem Korn

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You Kill It..............You Grill It.

I got three packs of coyotes with eight+ confirmed dogs per. I got two owls the size of 6yo kids that have nested in my tree for years, I got coons, hawks, wild dogs. All can cause me problems. All that might be infected with some kind of something or other, all that can (and do) eat cats, dogs, and whatever small animal you choose to keep for that week. I don't need to kill them to keep them at bay. With the coyotes I sometimes have to charge them to remind that I can kill them if I wanted. I choose to live among these animals, so why would I want to kill them? To me, it's better than living among the human animals in the city.

I appreciate locobro's opinion.
 

speedgoat

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You do a lot of farming there in Point Loma?
This is an opinion board. Everybody gets a turn.
Haven't lived my whole life in Point Loma buddy, only the last 2 1/2 years. How about you? You ever got your hands dirty working on a farm or ranch?

You are correct, it is an opinion board. You just heard mine.
 

SNEEKEE

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Dec 22, 2006
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You are 100% right about the Elk in Yellowstone, they had become OVERPOPULATED because the wolves were wiped out by people who had intrest in cattle sales.

The same can't be said about the mountain lions here in California can it?
I have to jump in on this becauce I raise cattle. so Im coming from the rancher's point of view.Rancher's should be alloud to kill wolves and in alot of places hunter's should be alloud to kill them to .wolves should be left in places like yellowstone where theres no hunting alloud. but alot of state's wont let rancher kill them even if there attacking live stock.
 

johnnylite

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Haven't lived my whole life in Point Loma buddy, only the last 2 1/2 years. How about you? You ever got your hands dirty working on a farm or ranch?

You are correct, it is an opinion board. You just heard mine.
Grew up on a farm. Killed things.
Now I try not to.
You are right about the opionions nobody is telling anybody what to do or if they are right or wrong.

I ain't your buddy by the way buddy.
 

Fresh One

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"Everything in moderation" is a motto that has widespread implications.

Keeping predators and varmits in check is sound game management. Killing them all off is not. Neither is protecting them 100% and letting them become overpopulated. Its a complex issue and one that various DFG orgs try to manage through laws regarding varmit/predator hunting. Sometimes they do a good job, sometimes they do not.

As far as studies go, there is a wonderful book called "How to Lie With Statistics". The jist is, in any study, its easy to come to the conclusion you are after so make sure you read studies from both sides and make your own determination. Unfortuantely, like life itself, many factors and variables go into a specific result, so chalking it up to "the wolves came back" is probably a gross oversimplification given all of the variables in play.

In the case of the mountain lion, they have no enemy since they cannot be hunted or controlled. All they do is reproduce and eat deer and sheep. Leaving them unchecked is not a good idea and the liberal CA kooks who outlawed hunting them will soon be rewarded with no more sheep. Hunters have been rewarded with dwindling deer populations for several years.

I'm not advocating killing everything that preys on game animals, I'm just saying that everything needs to be managed. Who is going to do that if humans don't? I guess the other option is to just let mother nature take its course and see what happens. In the case of mountain lions, that would probably end up being no more sheep, not many deer and a sick and starving lion population. Not too mention an increase in human/lion interaction as they come looking for food. None of that sounds as reasonable as some basic management but that is just me.
 

Deno

NO SHENANIGANS....
Jun 23, 2006
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You must not have kids, Locobro can kiss my ass. He doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about.




You Kill It..............You Grill It.

I got three packs of coyotes with eight+ confirmed dogs per. I got two owls the size of 6yo kids that have nested in my tree for years, I got coons, hawks, wild dogs. All can cause me problems. All that might be infected with some kind of something or other, all that can (and do) eat cats, dogs, and whatever small animal you choose to keep for that week. I don't need to kill them to keep them at bay. With the coyotes I sometimes have to charge them to remind that I can kill them if I wanted. I choose to live among these animals, so why would I want to kill them? To me, it's better than living among the human animals in the city.

I appreciate locobro's opinion.
 

SNEEKEE

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Haven't lived my whole life in Point Loma buddy, only the last 2 1/2 years. How about you? You ever got your hands dirty working on a farm or ranch?

You are correct, it is an opinion board. You just heard mine.
Im sorry I dont think allot of these people have even been near a real ranch speedgoat
 
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