Charkbait talking smack............. also bad mouths amazon

Discussion in 'World Of PENN' started by fxr3, Dec 29, 2017.

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  1. fxr3

    fxr3 Newbie

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    always admired Charkbait for giving up Shimano for whatever reasons........
    Hard to even find a good analogy for that ballsy move........
    They both survive without each other.
    For quite some time he had a wait and see thing before he agreed to sell new internationals.
    Now he is selling them- but talks a ton of shit about them selling direct(but still is selling them).
    The worlds biggest company sells direct and through dealers and remains the worlds biggest company. Apple
    Not sure why dealers still sell there stuff, pretty sure I wouldn’t.
    In many or most cases, mfgs perfer to fix warrenty or general repairs on there stuff as most dealers don’t know or care enough to represent the mfg on that level, and when th brand x doesn’t get fixed right by dealer, brand x suffers far more than dealer. Charky also badmouths amazon, although I would guess small tackle shop puts charky and amazon in same category- big retailers bumping out little guys with pricing. Mfg discount these guys more- cause they are selling more product. Reasonable. Oh yea, where was I? If the biggest online dealer is taking a wait and see on slinging internationals- hard to fault Penn for selling direct. If they were discounting off retail- that would be wrong. If they are trying to compensate for biggest online retailer to make up his mind- it seems reasonable(if they want to stay in business. Suggesting Penn is copying Okuma is stupid. Okuma copied Penn, and every improvement or invention is merely a upgrade of existing stuff.
    What really bugged me is his suggestion that Penn copied Shimano handle- so did everyone one else. First time I picked up a Trinidad I knew it was the handle -not- the the bigger gearset that made it feel good and I would copy it too, if I made reels.
    I have a penn visx 20 and a sea 20. They both work well. For me I like the Penn- made in America. Makira is made in China.... well the good side of China, I guess- Tawain.
    Apple is made in China. Big reels are one of the few things we can buy made in America- and I think we should.
     
  2. 26grumpy

    26grumpy who hooked who

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    What are you trying to say?
     
  3. pele

    pele Member

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    That meth is bad.
     
  4. BiggestT

    BiggestT I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I'll count that as a warm up click.
     
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  5. hucklongfin

    hucklongfin Deep release specialist

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    That's just Mark being Mark again. But he's right about manufacturers who sell direct and undercut their dealers. Manufacturers who do that are lucky to still have any dealers.

    More Charkbait comments on the VISX reels....
    One point, the specifications Penn is providing had me suspicious at ICAST. Their claim of far more line capacity than typical for reels of this size had me thinking they were ingesting something which may cloud judgment... Well, now I understand more. They based their capacity based upon use of their own line, which is suspect in and of itself. The new Penn Internationals hold the same amount of line as other reels of the same relative size (their arbors are still rather fat). Penn played a diameter game on their specs. And, with respect to the ProSpect line used, the stuff needs to be fully tested in the field before I'd load it on my own gear. Secondly, I'm hearing some claims coming primarily from some dealers on the East Coast, one not really a dealer but a very busy chat room wind-on maker claiming how great it is to get over 900 yards of 100# on a 20 size reel. Silly, waste of money. I don't know of many cow sized tuna that needed anything more than 500-600 yards (if that) when appropriate line tests and drag pressures were used. If you need 900 yards, well, you're probably fishing way too light a line or way too light a drag. Wrong gear for right fish...
     
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  6. AKSalmon

    AKSalmon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I have to say I was pretty amazed when I read Mark's discussion about the new Penn Internationals when he is also selling them. He is obviously mad at Penn for selling direct. And he throws more than a few rocks at the reels themselves. I don't know why he does this -- is he hoping to increase sales of Okumas or Avets by dissing Penn? Who knows. As an end user, I am impressed by the new Internationals, and as long as Penn does not discount the reels they sell direct, I don't have much of a problem. Whether I am ready to use the new Penn spectra is another issue.
     
  7. jer dog

    jer dog Fishing is life

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    He wants his cake and eat it to
    he wants all the Tackle Company's to Kiss his ass
    for selling their Product,
    that's why I Spend My $$$ else ware
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  8. tunanorth

    tunanorth I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    To clarify, "ProSpec" braid comes under the "Berkley" brand name. While the "hollow" version is indeed brand-new [debuted at ICAST 2017], the "solid" has been on the market for 4 years now, and well battle-proven. As part of Pure Fishing, of course they are going to use something under their own umbrella.
    All of Pure Fishing's superbraid products are made using "Dyneema" fiber. There are several threads in the BDO archives discussng the long evolution of Gel-Spun Polyethylene fiber branding.
    With the extreme variation in line diameters among manufacturers, along with variables in spooling tension, and personal preference on fill-up level, consistency in capacity will be difficult if not impossible to achieve.
    FTR, over the past 10 years, PENN's braid capacities have been calculated using Berkley Big Game Braid solid, then Spiderwire Stealth, and for the past 4 years, Berkley Pro-Spec Braid solid. Mono capacities are calculated using Berkley Big Game mono. Capacities are not updated when the current line is changed.
    Having installed some of the new Pro-Spec "hollow" on a couple of my personal reels, it is definitely different again, and appears to be smaller in comparison.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  9. fxr3

    fxr3 Newbie

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    Aahhh, buy American, I guess. After reading Charky take on Penn, I told my cat the story- he fell asleep. So, I posted.
     
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  10. Let em eat 74

    Let em eat 74 Well-Known "Member"

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    I fit 660 yards of IZORLINE #100 solid (which we all know from Paulus testing is larger than most in diameter) on my 16 VISX. PENN says it fits 655. I would say it’s pretty damn accurate. I won’t buy from Charkbait ever but to each their own.
     
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  11. Ohfreak

    Ohfreak Newbie

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    I think penn have and continue to make awesome reels,but it is wrong of penn to undercut their dealers. Selling their reels on their own website is fine but slashing prices on their own website for products that they will be discontinuing or redesign before giving dealers time to liquidate their stock is wrong.
     
  12. Whalebreath

    Whalebreath Well-Known "Member"

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    FWIW-Charkbait was cut off from Shimano-booted hard & high- for trying to undercut the MSRP which as far as Shimano goes is set in stone.

    Pulling dumb shit like offering reels full of Spectra as an 'incentive' is what got Chark pushed out into the cold.
     
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  13. No Cal Lou

    No Cal Lou No Cal Lou

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    I thought firm price setting is against the law. A wholesaler can only suggest a retail price but cannot legally enforce it as absolute.
     
  14. af dreamer

    af dreamer I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    You are welcome to sell it for what ever you want.You just cant advertise below there minimum ad price.It has been tested.Many big co have the same policy such as Nike.The big problem comes from 3rd party retailers like Amazon.Tom
     
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  15. mike garrahan

    mike garrahan TheSabreGuy

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    A company can set an MSRP and require that dealers stick to the MSRP. If a dealer decides to violate the policy the company can elect not to do business with that dealer in the future.
     
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  16. FishinMcNuggets

    FishinMcNuggets Fishin fo' Nutrition!

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    Honestly, I'd rather purchase from a brick and mortar place any day. Bad news is that B&M Mom & Pop tackle stores are going by the wayside unless they up their game, or play the online/mail order game. Look at places like Tackle warehouse, or Scotts, or even Charkbait. I think the new normal is specialty retailers doing this mix of of business.

    I honestly think Amazon is a Pimp in a customer service manager's clothing. They withhold payment from their vendors like nobody's business. When you take something from someone without paying, most people would call it stealing. A beast like Amazon can get away with it, because they have a line of suckers just waiting to do business with/for them. I resist buying from them. I think everyone else should too.

    I have hardly ever seen a price on Charkie's that made me wanna run over and buy something.

    Honestly, be you Mfg., Dist, or retail, it never pays to burn bridges. Doesn't matter how big you are. I work for someone who does, and it will be their downfall.

    Vote with your $$$.

    & when you can, buy American or Non-chinese. The way of life you save could be your own.

    BUT, they can choose who to sell hot inventory to! See it all the time. Product being held for "preferred" retailers or distributors. People who use your products as a "loss leader" or promotional sale item being left in the cold with no stock.
     
  17. oba

    oba Newbie

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    On a different but related note. I like the stuff that both Penn and Okuma are making these days. That said, I think Penn loses some business to Okuma by only offering a 1 yr warranty on all their reels. The internationals are high quality, made in USA flagship reels, but only backed by a 1 yr warranty vs 3-5 on Okuma mid and top offerings. I'm sure they have valid reasons and economic analysis, but I would still like to see Penn offer at least 2-3 yrs on the Internationals.

    Tight lines in 2018!
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  18. Cubeye

    Cubeye I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Charkbait has good prices. Their inventory is a different story. I don't like ordering stuff, paying for it, then have them call me and say half of the stuff I ordered is on back order. Their computer system does not tell you what is "in stock".

    One time, instead of calling me, they gave me "replacements" and threw a few extra stuff in for free.

    Now I call them for "stock check" , then I order on line. PITA, but it works.
     
  19. gecsr1

    gecsr1 28' Aquasport "Reel Adventure II"

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    I have talked with Mark on a couple of occasions and met him once, He has always been a straight shooter.... As far as I am concerned he is a good hard working retailer, and supports his customers....He has two brick and mortar stores, plus his internet sales.... so he has experience in both worlds...
    I don't buy or support Shimano as they do not support parts for older reels long enough . I hear that from many people as well ...
     
  20. Brad I

    Brad I Common Sense Isn't Common Enough

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    Charkbait is in ABSOLUTELY NO POSITION TO CRITICIZE ANYONE for "copying" another's product.

    They gleefully sell knock-offs of lures, line, rods, etc. They claim to be championing lower prices, but its a lot easier to have lower prices if you don't undertake the risk, cost and time of development and testing, nor advertising. Its real easy to let someone else do that, and make and prove that there is a market for the product, then come in with a cheaper copy-cat product after the other guy has taken the risk and borne the expense of creating the product and the market.

    I too have had the experience of ordering Product A and being shipped product B without warning, then had to pay shipping back and forth to return Product B, as if being shipped substitute product was my fault. I'll shop at the physical stores if I happen to be in the area, but now generally stay away from mail order.
     
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