Breaking things

locvetter

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Now that my humongous tackle box is basically done, I have turned my attention to breaking things. I have this rack, with a heavy duty web ratchet at one end and a new 150kg scale, that records peak values, at the other. They are mounted to a 42" length of 4" aluminum channel. I am not like the superlative gentleman who so beautifully tested countless combinations of crips and fluoro. I, rather, am narrowing down to a few options, and then test to see if I want to make some copies with those elements for my trip.

These are just some examples. Note: all these failures came at loads to which they would not be exposed when fishing. Our manufacturers and suppliers are good people. That is not to say I did not adjust some things based on the results. I will not bore you with all the details, but hope to spark wonder:

This 300# ball bearing swivel on the loading just after I had tried to break my fixturing - -taking the rack to 292#. I got scared and did not break my fixtures - made of 400# mono. Still I was surprised:
Ball bearing swivel fail.JPG


Since I have seen some failures where fluoro passes around chrome snaps, I wondered if the chrome failure might be significant. Now using either tubing or Delrin or metal to metal:
Chrome fail.JPG


Even delrin can fail -- this was no doubt because the B4 crip slid on the 200# fluoro, splitting the Delrin grommet:
Delrin fail.JPG


I thought I liked thee pretty blue Frenzy hooks. I have caught several nice fish, up t about 130 on them. It started to deform at about 60#. I call the photo a fail - at what the scale says (That peak load feature is nice).
frenzy fail.JPG
200fluoro fail.JPG
 

shellback

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I think destructive testing on our gear is really important. and for myself, not being a materials engineer, ballpark figures at failure points are more than sufficient. to get close tolerance values at breakage is too expensive and not necessary for my purposes. my ghetto setup is an eyebolt drilled into the foundation of my house, a comealong and a 300lb scale. used mostly for knots and topshot tests. thanx for your post op
 

locvetter

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I think destructive testing on our gear is really important. and for myself, not being a materials engineer, ballpark figures at failure points are more than sufficient. to get close tolerance values at breakage is too expensive and not necessary for my purposes. my ghetto setup is an eyebolt drilled into the foundation of my house, a comealong and a 300lb scale. used mostly for knots and topshot tests. thanx for your post op
I concur that this is not valid science, but I still do find it of interest. It has become a lot easier/more fun since I made the 3/8 Lexan guard, which protects me and the dogs from shrapnel, and catches some of the fracture fragments, which once were commonly lost to the abyss of the carpet.
 

Steve K

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How bizarre. If I’m going to be fishing drag at 30 lbs at strike, maybe 45 lbs at full, why exceed that in the test? I don’t get it.
 
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FishRock

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How bizarre. Either you have way too much time on your hands or you don’t sleep. If I’m going to be fishing drag at 30 lbs at strike, maybe 45 lbs at full, why exceed that in the test? I don’t get it.
Never hurts to confirm just how much safety factor you have. Finding the point of failure lets you know if you will ever get near it. Helps me sleep and fish with confidence.
 
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Steve K

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Steve K

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Never hurts to confirm just how much safety factor you have. Finding the point of failure lets you know if you will ever get near it. Helps me sleep and fish with confidence.
All right, that makes sense.
 

wils

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How bizarre. If I’m going to be fishing drag at 30 lbs at strike, maybe 45 lbs at full, why exceed that in the test? I don’t get it.
maybe to feel more comfortable and not worry about whether something might happen with "just one more pound of drag....". having a 60-70# buffer - for me - would make me feel more comfortable and give me one less thing to worry about.
 

locvetter

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A concern was raised about the B4 crimp that slid: Bottom line, this was a loads way over twice our typical max drag of 50#.

I responded to the concern with the following:

"I actually did this test just before building some kite leaders, for the purpose of comparing the B4 sleeve to a Jinkai GS sleeve. These were at either end of a short length of 200# Maxima fluoro, 1.51-1.53mm. I did use the B4 labeled option on the large tool I got from BHP, calibrated. I used the same crimping slot on both the B4 and the Jinkai GS.

I did not appreciate what had happened until the bang of failure, so do not know at what load the line started to slip in the crimp. The nature of my contraption is that the ratchet effectively has me adding load in a stepwise fashion. I generally stop at each "click" and look through my shield. I did not write down the load at the click before failure, but, based on having done this a few times now, with similar lengths of the same Fluoro, it was likely in the 120's or higher. The point of failure was, to my surprise, at the Delrin grommet. The peak load at failure was 192.3 lbs.

I initially thought the grommet failed because of hoop stresses from the fluoro, but on inspection, the B4 crimp sleeve had left witness marks on the grommet and was likely the cause of the stress riser leading to failure. Obviously, the loop continued to tighten after the grommet failure.

Note, the overall integrity of the connection was never lost. I stopped the test when the Delrin grommet failed. The crimped loops at each end were intact, but the one on the B4 end had slid to tighten, the GS had not slipped. Under my little digital microscope I could see no failure starting in the fluoro at either end.

Please note, I have used the B4 crimps on numerous other tests. You may have noticed that the failure at the loop in the last slide is with a B4. No slip on that one.

There have been no failures, really of anything I have tested, at less than double what I consider the max drag setting in this kind of fishing, about 50#. I.e., all failures were well over 100# of load.

Incidentally, I have 7 (sick) round hole crimping/swaging tools, including the Jinkai SC-3C and the bigger Soft Touch Ultra-Lite I got from Melton, pictured in other posts. I have played with them all extensively. Without question the big Nico I got from BHP is my favorite. I have great confidence in it. Although the size of the hole and forces are similar with the SC-3C and the Soft Touch Ultra-Lite I got from Melton, I think (without good science - just feelings after looking carefully at the crimps) that the SC-3C is too narrow, the Soft Touch too wide, and the Nico just right.

Added note: I compared the B4 slot to the C slot for the GS crimps. The C slot allowed slipping at high load, the B4 slot on the Nico crimping tool, with G and GS Jinkai crimps, has had no failures at all.

Why am I going with aluminum crimps? Comes down to believing that the super smart engineers that designed the Nico stuff were designing for wire. The super smart engineers that designed for Jinkai were designing for mono and fluoro. Also, the shiny aluminum crimps are prettier and are shown on the videos on the RP website mentioned in my 20/0 thread.

Thanks for taking an interest.
 

rdrrm8e

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Do you melt and mushroom the tag end of your mono/fluoro before crimping...?

Even if it slides..it cannot come apart.

There used to be a story of a well known female fisherman who forgot to crimp and landed a cow because the mushroomed tag end held
 

locvetter

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Do you melt and mushroom the tag end of your mono/fluoro before crimping...?

Even if it slides..it cannot come apart.

There used to be a story of a well known female fisherman who forgot to crimp and landed a cow because the mushroomed tag end held
I absolutely do, even when just doing these tests. Trying to make what I am testing as close to what is fished as possible.
I have heard and read several versions of the mushroomed head saving the day. Can't all be true, but the theory makes sense, and having the mushroom on there, for me, makes it easier to adjust the loop just as I desire.
Sicko: Still trying to decide if I like a regular Bic lighter, a blue flame, or an electric blow out proof one to make the mushroom.
 

Bill W

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Really great stuff Loc...

I am anal about buying what a stated part is rated for.

That Delrin failure can be attributed to a bad crimp, or crimp job but it does show a weak material. Brass or other material would be better in one way, but heavier, so it is a balance issue what you are looking for.
 
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JoeInMN

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I love this stuff great thread, great testing, just awesome!!