Boeing vote today

Discussion in 'Washington Fishing Reports' started by Fish Slapper, Jan 3, 2014.

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  1. Fish Slapper

    Fish Slapper I would love to be your Captain for a day!

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    I bet its an interesting day on the shop floor and offices of Boeing..... todays Union vote is a big decision and it will affect all of Puget Sound/Western Wa in one way or another (along with other places)...I sure do hope people take a look at the current business structures of the world today and realize times have drastically changed over the last 20 years and vote with some common sense and not just the "stick it to the greed corporation " attitude.
     
  2. goatram

    goatram Notable Member Gate Keeper to the Great Northwest

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    Mark is it anything else but CORPORATE GREED that threw the Glove down? We; the Union Members did not seek out this.
    Jim McNerney's legacy will be; That HE fucked the union Good!
     
  3. blackmouther

    blackmouther 10%er during Salmon Season

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    "Stick it to the Greed" There is nothing wrong with good people standing up for themselves. In doing so they are protecting more than just themselves. Think the economy in washington is bad? Try selling your house or finding a competetive wage when the IAM stops standing up for themselves and are forced to take paycuts while a company prospers. Like it or not Unions in this state are the reason our living conditions and wages are way fucking better than other states. That stupid fuck Bongartner in Spokompton who wants to visit the "right to starve" law is a fucking idiot. If you don't like my opinion thats too bad because it's based on facts. Without the work force being strong only the wealthy survive and poverty becomes reality.
     
  4. Fish Slapper

    Fish Slapper I would love to be your Captain for a day!

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion that's for certain! I am sincerely curious how this will play out, I really have no dog in this fight and a union/anti union conversation will never go well.... there is always 2 sides to every coin and its very rare that either side is really "right"... just hate to see that many jobs leave the area so hopefully it will not come to that.
     
  5. blackmouther

    blackmouther 10%er during Salmon Season

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    100% agree. I wasn't sure where you were headed with the thread so the cock feathers stood up instantly based on the outcome of the last title similiar to this one.
     
  6. Fish Slapper

    Fish Slapper I would love to be your Captain for a day!

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    No problem, I totally understand and I thought hard before even posting but it sincerely does affect allot of peoples so I hope it all works out as a win/win for everyone... no ill intent meant on my end in anyway.

    will just stand by and wait to see the results later tonight!...
     
  7. Jermz

    Jermz Slay'in and fillet'in

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  8. Titan

    Titan I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I heard that R&D is moving out of WA. A friend of mine got a notice that his group is moving to Huntsville, AL. Are any BDers affected?
     
  9. dragonballs

    dragonballs I'm off probation

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    i am getting the popcorn this is going to be good as long as it stays under the radar and remains open..


    the unions were needed to protect workers...they served their purpose and now have become a way for the leaders of said unions to continue to fill their pockets from the hard work of its members... I say be happy there are jobs and if you don't like what the job pays find a different job.. and fifteen bucks an hour for minimum wage. I for one will hate to see the outcome of this if Boeing pulls out of the state. and honestly how many time have any of us heard about how much someone at boeing is making for working a half shift. friends of mine have told me many stories of how little they actually do during a shift. the unions are driving this negative attitude and filling the workers heads with RAH RAH RAH bullshit slogans.

    go ahead and bring it on... Oh and lets start a thread about religion......FUCK ME........
     
  10. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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    Following :D
     
  11. Tues

    Tues Not my job...

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    What she said.
     
  12. Saluki

    Saluki .

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    Don't get too big for your britches and think the company won't pull out and make the place a ghost town.

    In 1992 there were over 52,000 people building airplanes in Long Beach, in 21 more months there will be NONE.

    Just sayin'
     
  13. Roll the Bones

    Roll the Bones Dr. Fong

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    And away we go! I do not have a dog in this fight either, but the economy will suffer. Many of us have had to make sacrfices even though the Company we work for still makes a profit. That is capitalism, I just hope it's not an entitlement issue on the Union side of the argument, and I would hope on Boeings side it's about quality of product, loyalty, but with that there still needs to be profitability for all of us share holders! So if the union contract rips the profit out of it, see you later. I would honestly like to know, because I do not, how many Union Boeing jobs will be lost if the contract is killed?
     
  14. gnehekul

    gnehekul I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I feel that I am an above average employee and why would I want to be paid average pay?
     
  15. blackmouther

    blackmouther 10%er during Salmon Season

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  16. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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    The company’s production line for the 777, the earlier version of the twin-engine model, is in Everett, a city of 105,000. With more than 30,000 workers at the plant.

    If Boeing leaves, it will destroy the area, and possibly the Sates economy. Vote wisely.

    Boeing employed about 12,100 workers for the 777 in 2012, and another 7,600 jobs were connected to the aircraft’s production, according to a November report on the state’s aerospace industry prepared by Community Attributes Inc., a Seattle-based research firm. The 777 program produced $133.1 million in tax revnue for the state in 2012.
    Boeing is the single largest private employer in Washington state, with 84,442 workers as of August, according to the report. The state had 94,200 aerospace employees in 2012, including about 72,900 with Boeing, the report said. Boeing paid an estimated $7.2 billion in wages that year, according to the report.

    I will say i do hate this Corporate Welfare shit...Washington approved $8.7 billion in tax breaks for Boeing."
     
  17. MYNomad

    MYNomad Heading South

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    Reading Radar's letter not only makes me glad I purchased some stock at 60 and more at 50, but makes me think I should buy more now.

    As for the union position, looks like they may over-play their hand. With the thought of "protecting" their rights they will lose their jobs. Really unfortunate. In the global economy, if you don't offer more value than the next guy, you won't get the business, even if the next guy is a foreigner. Plenty of non-union people in our country would love those jobs. It is getting to the point that unions are bad for not just local and state economies, but for our national economy as well. The world is a competitive place and it is just getting worse. As individuals, families, companies, communities, states, and as a nation, we must do much more to improve our competitiveness, or we will all be left in the dust.
     
  18. JFK

    JFK Well-Known "Member"

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    Very informative letter that puts things in perspective.

    People who say they don't have a dog in this fight might want to consider that when something like this happens it sets a precedent for further erosion of quality working conditions and livable wages for EVERYONE, union or not. Any money saved in reduced wages is just absorbed by top executives. If you think that people who don't accept concessions should just suck it up and be glad they have a job consider that it was organized labor that got us a weekend and paid holidays. Will you maintain your "like it or leave it attitude" when the bar has been lowered and your employer demands you work every weekend and holiday? Much like civil rights (speech, gun ownership, etc) if you're not activley fighting to maintain labor conditons then someone is activley taking them away...just the way it is.
     
  19. Tues

    Tues Not my job...

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    Like everything in life, there should be a compromise in there somewhere. I see both sides. I'm not a union fan (especially the public sector ones destroying California) and not a fan of corporate welfare that these executives live off.

    As a shareholder, I want a return on my investment. And, as a resident of Arizona, we'll welcome them with open arms as a right to work state.

    Hope is works out for everyone.
     
  20. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101307580

    decent article..
    Some 31,000 Boeing machinists vote on Friday on a crucial labor contract that affects the location of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of economic activity.
    If the workers accept the deal, Boeing would build its new 777X jetliner and wings in the Seattle area, where Boeing has built aircraft for more than 90 years.
    If they reject it, Boeing says it will make the wings and possibly the whole plane, elsewhere, marking a major employment and economic loss for Washington state.
    Boeing says it has received offers from 22 states interested in hosting a new factory to build the successor to its popular 777 widebody jet.
    The vote has opened deep rifts between the local International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), which opposes the contract, and its Washington leadership, which forced a vote on the proposal. It has also revealed cleavages between younger workers open to the deal and older workers dead set against it.


    [​IMG]Source: Boeing Co.

    In November, two-thirds of machinists voted against a similar offer that would have replaced their traditional defined-benefit pension with a 401(k)-style savings plan, one of two retirement plans the workers receive.
    The union's national leadership negotiated that deal, which would have extended the contract eight years beyond its current expiration in 2016. But local leaders opposed it, saying the take-aways were too great.
    Now, the same dynamic is playing out again. Boeing has sweetened the offer with a larger signing bonus and other changes. But the deal still eliminates the pension, and local union leaders have urged members to reject it.
    "You need to look at the facts of the economic destruction you would live under for the next 11 years," local leaders said in a letter to members.
    The national leaders say the new offer is $1 billion better than the prior one.
    "The membership deserves the final say," said R. Thomas Buffenbarger, president of the IAM International, which also has members in Canada.
    The issue has drawn wide attention as other states bid to win thousands of well-paid jobs and because of the tactics Boeing has used to bargain with its union.
    Even noted consumer advocate Ralph Nader has weighed in, calling Boeing's tough stance "unseemly," given Chief Executive Jim McNerney's $21 million pay package.
    "A book could be written about the Boeing company's strategy for externalization of a variety of its costs onto innocent, defenseless people—whether workers or taxpayers," Nader wrote.
    Work Guarantee
    Beside the pension loss, local union leaders say the language of Boeing's offer does not ensure that machinists will get the work, because it reserves Boeing's right to use lower paid contractors.
    "I'm very, very skeptical of what Boeing is saying to us," Lester Mullen, a local District 751 council delegate, said on Thursday from the shop floor where he builds Boeing's 777 wings in Everett, Washington.
    Even if workers approve the contract and Boeing builds the 777X in Washington, Boeing could outsource the work to a vendor.
    "It doesn't mean we're getting the work. It just means it's going to be built here," he added.
    Boeing responded this week by saying that it will establish its base for making the 777X's carbon-composite wings in the Puget Sound area, which includes Seattle.
    "This work will be performed by the mechanics who currently build aluminum wings here in Puget Sound," Alan May, vice president of human resources at Boeing Commercial Airplanes, said in a letter sent to 777 workers.
    On Thursday, it issued a further statement saying "current mechanics will have the opportunity to be trained for this new composite work" and noting that it would make its 737 MAX jet in the area, and do KC-46 aerial refueling jet and P-8 submarine killer jet production work, "in the Puget Sound and Portland through 2024."
    The company declined to comment on Nader's letter to McNerney.
    Sharp Division
    The divide between the local leaders and their national counterparts is mirrored by divisions over the contract that appear to cleave along age lines.


    [​IMG]Play Video



    Big risk buying Boeing: Pro

    Boeing's stock is up more than 80 percent this year. Despite its climb John Spallanzani, GFI Group director of institutional sales & trading, explains why Boeing has more room to run. Yair Reiner, Oppenheimer & Co. senior analyst, is more cautious and says there is big risk in buying Boeing's stock.

    Younger machinists have voiced strong concern that failing to vote for the contract would cost them their jobs as Boeing moves the work elsewhere. The 777X is the last major development on Boeing's books for the next 15 years. If the plane is built elsewhere, it would slowly erode aerospace jobs in Washington, they fear. The average wages is $29 an hour.
    Many older workers, however, have said the pension is sacred and is worth risking job loss.
    "There's plenty of aviation work in the world," said Kevin Flynn, an aviation maintenance technician inspector, who has filed a complaint against the national union leaders with the National Labor Relations Board for holding the vote against the wishes of a majority of members.
    "I'll just have to move to where the work is."
    The union says 49 percent of machinists are 50 or older, and under the new contract could take their full pensions starting at age 58. Workers 50 and over who want to protect their pensions could potentially sway the vote on Friday. The average age of the Seattle IAM local's members is 46.
    For the machinists, the age dispute erupted at a rally last month.
    "Retire and go away!" a young woman shouted at an older worker, saying her family had worked at the company for three generations. A sign attached to her child's stroller said: "This vote affects the smallest IAM members, too!"
    The older, gray-haired worker shouted back: "Why do you want to sell your pension out?"
    If past votes are a guide, the pension might not be the only key issue. Last year, Boeing's unionized engineers narrowly approved a less drastic pension change that halted the pension for new hires.
    Friday's vote also might have relatively low turnout because it comes just after Boeing's airplane factories reopened after their customary closure between the Christmas and New Year's holidays.
    Since many workers might still be on vacation, the union is allowing them to log on and vote electronically.
    Paper ballots will be counted at five union halls around the Seattle area and results phoned to local District 751 President Tom Wroblewski, who will announce them.
    The final tally is expected around 9 pm PT.
     
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