"Boat Length of Mono"

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by effigy, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. effigy

    effigy Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Oregon
    Name:
    Mark
    Boat:
    Which one? Too many....
    • Messages:
      (715)
    • Likes Received:
      (466)
    With all the chat about fluoro, short leaders, etc. I might point out that at least two prominent boats/ captains (Vagabond and Apollo) have espoused the use of a "Boat length" or more of mono at Guadalupe.

    And obviously, those guys know something about fishing there.

    So I asked Mike Lackey about it, and he did reply saying that mono is preferable in certain conditions. He gave a few hints as to what goes into his decision to use long mono, vs short fluoro.

    So on my next trip to Lupe (if the boat ends up there) I will have that ready as an option.
     
    Cubeye likes this.
  2. freegaff2

    freegaff2 Well-Known "Member"

    Name:
    Craig Simcox
    Boat:
    none
    • Messages:
      (808)
    • Likes Received:
      (1,332)
    First day at the 'lupe late Oct this year I started with that...100# Soft Steel. Dropped to 80# Soft Steel, then cut down from boat length to 15'...couldn't buy a bite. Even had Ray and Rocco fishing it...no go. Switched to 80# Blackwater, and it was game on. First time I had ever had to go to flouro. Won't leave home without it now. I still have the 80/100 Soft Steel, and will probably fish it again. Every day/trip is different :D
     
    Cubeye and cortezpirasea like this.
  3. effigy

    effigy Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Oregon
    Name:
    Mark
    Boat:
    Which one? Too many....
    • Messages:
      (715)
    • Likes Received:
      (466)
    "Come on down to our shop, and we'll discuss it in person"

    But seriously, the reply was kinda cryptic. " it depends on conditions. "

    So, what are several of the key conditions? Surely everyone here knows them.

    But there was no specific guidance as to how the state of a condition equates to mono vs fluoro.

    Garry just touched on one of them, in the other thread on fluoro.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
    Bill W likes this.
  4. spongehead

    spongehead "ONE FISH AT A TIME"

    Location:
    garden grove, ca
    Name:
    David
    Boat:
    Maria
    • Messages:
      (523)
    • Likes Received:
      (614)
    Weather is my guess... Stretch.
     
  5. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    Even with the dynamics of conditions you gotta ask the guy that first got bit a list of questions. And then you can decide to change your tactics. What works can change on an hour to hour basis.

    I have not heard the boat length of mono speech in a long time on the Rooster. With the length of rail rods used being 7 and 7.5 feet that may be all the shock absorber you need moving with the fish, unless you just sit on the rod butt.
     
  6. wils

    wils lazy-ass well known "member"

    Location:
    not a spoiled bitch from san diego
    Name:
    bill
    Boat:
    I hate boats
    • Messages:
      (8,579)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,445)
    :urno1:
     
  7. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ natural born jig slingers

    Location:
    Costa Rica. San Diego, Old Del Mar
    Name:
    ZZZZZ
    Boat:
    Jet Ski Yamaha FX Show. ZZZZZ
    • Messages:
      (6,256)
    • Likes Received:
      (5,912)
    Big props to the tinkers, thank you. Where would we be without fishing scientists? There would be no cool new gear. No progression. My thoughts below would not exist without them.

    Longer top shot if the angler points the rod at the fish and maybe stretchy mono would be best. Larger hook too. Imo as a higher percentage of passengers are not ready for race ready. Those who are do it well and effectively. If I took my non fishing buddy on a trip with heavy fish I would rig him with a long top shot.

    To simplify the puzzle for me as my next trip will be focused on straight catching fish. No time or trip budget to tinker. Sardine or Mac size bait fly line. Sato crimps with flouro straight into the hollow spectra (not pre made original line memory wound on), 12-15' 100-130lb seaguar, super mutu primo bait, straight tie, butt hook. Gives me sano confidence which is what gets me pumped. No worries what the other guy got bit on. I grew up fishing 1/2 day boats. Long soak or lots of current nose hook. No doubts in my mind it can get any better. Only different and I'm not switching over most likely.

    And lower diameter for lupe but the same rigging.

    Done. Race ready with absolute pulling confidence and earning a bite. Seems like timeless rigging. I'm the dude that gives the baits play by play :) often times you will know/hear just before I get the bite. Coaching my bait and cheering it on. Talking to the bait staying in the game while I'm on the boat and the bait is on the field and in the ocean. haha

    Primo sardine bait. The ones that turn from green to blond quickly after being transferred from the deck tank to the bait well. Feels like a bar of wet soap. Healthy as they change color rapidly to camouflage in the brighter light. Pay attention to the batches.

    Its like fishing for albacore but everything is bigger.

    I would not recommend a beginner surfer to use a very high performance short board either. Surf school big floatee boards and forgiving. Like a long top shot.

    I'm jonesing for LR fishing :) thanks for listening and letting me re fresh my memory
     
  8. effigy

    effigy Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Oregon
    Name:
    Mark
    Boat:
    Which one? Too many....
    • Messages:
      (715)
    • Likes Received:
      (466)
    Hay ZZZZZ.....that was like a LR poetry slam
     
    Yolo and caveman like this.
  9. RideHPD

    RideHPD Enthusiastic Idiot Rookie

    Location:
    Del Mar/Marina Del Rey, CA
    Name:
    Eric Marin
    Boat:
    10' Model T
    • Messages:
      (1,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (772)
    I'm all about the coddling the bait emotionally with pep talks, might be my favorite part of flylining.

    Well, other than getting bit obviously.
     
  10. Fincutter

    Fincutter Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Bartlett, IL
    Name:
    Greg
    Boat:
    Independence
    • Messages:
      (419)
    • Likes Received:
      (387)
    I understand the stretch benefit of some mono. But I wonder . . . can't I get a similar result by engaging my lever-drag reels at less than full strike? At times, I play with my lever drag and let the fish run when it wants to run and go full strike when I've got it coming back. I do the same thing with my coffee grinders by setting the drag a little low and using hand pressure for a couple of additional pounds of drag when the fish is coming back (I've even practiced at home to see how much hand pressure = 2 pounds of drag). That seems to work for me but I'll be the first to admit've that some of my ideas have turned out to be kinda dumb. Is this one of my dumb ideas?

    Also, I've tested the difference in drag between a straight pull and a full bend. The bend seems to add a bit over a pound of drag. Wouldn't that offset some of the shock absorption you lose from not bending the rod?
     
    Cubeye likes this.
  11. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    Used to fish 15# for albies and felt like I was fighting a spring. Hard to control a fish. The larger tests kinda nulls the spring affect.and I really wonder if you get that same feeling. With Spectra you can lift the head and keep the pointy end pointed to the boat. The real enemy is time for getting sharked, the hook digging out, line getting chewed exc... Now with graphite rod rebound, that adds to contact with the fish, why would you want to put a spring on the line?
     
  12. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Name:
    Robert
    Boat:
    none
    • Messages:
      (5,749)
    • Likes Received:
      (5,231)
    If your not sure if the larger tests are springing like the smaller ones, tighten the drag and point a rod with mono reel right at the fish and lean back. The fish won’t move, but you will, and as you lean forward all ththe slack will be picked up. Or hang the bottom, that helps explain it too without risking a fish :D
     
  13. Fincutter

    Fincutter Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Bartlett, IL
    Name:
    Greg
    Boat:
    Independence
    • Messages:
      (419)
    • Likes Received:
      (387)
    I live in Chicago, so my fishing comes down to practice at home (fooling around at my workbench and casting at the lakes near my house) and one or two trips per year. A while back I got curious about how much different lines stretch and, to my surprise, my testing showed that even something like 10 feet of 80# mono has a noticeable amount of stretch. I don't remember the measurements off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure that it was more than 10% for everything from 30-80#.
     
  14. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    Guess I could do that on land... but the affect has to do with line diameter minus applied drag. Still my point is the way we fish now with short top shots and Spectra and graphite rods is different.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  15. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Name:
    Robert
    Boat:
    none
    • Messages:
      (5,749)
    • Likes Received:
      (5,231)
    Agreed it can be easily be done on land. I don’t the think relatively small difference between a few tenths of a mm from say #40 to 100 is enough to make a noticeable difference in affect, but obviously would require more force (you say logarithmic, which could be) to get the same result in length of stretch. I admit freely could be totally wrong, but that is my hypothesis and am scientist enough to admit defeat if proven otherwise :-)

    I was doing some testing with 30’ of 200lb mono trying to test a crimped connection and there was noticeable spring in it when I was leaning my weight on it. I didn’t force it too far as I wanted to still be able to real world test it and to be honest I was out of leader material to do any more testing, but was surprised. I’ll post more on this project in a few weeks if I get some feedback on it hopefully (negative or positive).
     
  16. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    I can see an advantage to someone who just cranks and waits for the rod to lift the fish as the line spring is also lifting the fish. I do not wait for the rod, but reel down when I have room for one more crank.
     
    sonofahab and Fishybuzz like this.
  17. fishboy93

    fishboy93 Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    West Coast
    Name:
    Ryan
    Boat:
    Who’s hiring?
    • Messages:
      (858)
    • Likes Received:
      (307)
    Seems like a no brainer to fish a mono topshot when in large swells... always makes me laugh watching guys dump fish trying to use tons of drag and no stretch. Boats have been preaching this for all sorts of fishing for 10+ years since spectra took over. 30-50’ is plenty for a shock absorber.
     
  18. Let em eat 74

    Let em eat 74 Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Irvine
    Name:
    Kevin
    Boat:
    Whichever1is leaving
    • Messages:
      (543)
    • Likes Received:
      (798)
    It would be nice to know how much stretch for a given length in order to tailor your topshot to the swell condition. I would think a whole boat length is excessive, but I am a short topshot guy.
     
    Olddog8 and Bill W like this.
  19. RideHPD

    RideHPD Enthusiastic Idiot Rookie

    Location:
    Del Mar/Marina Del Rey, CA
    Name:
    Eric Marin
    Boat:
    10' Model T
    • Messages:
      (1,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (772)
    I have a hunch that more fish are lost right at the boat because there is less stretch available as there is only a short amount of line off the spool, and line on the spool doesn't stretch appreciably because of friction. That loss of stretch increases the loading/strain rate for the same headshake/run from the boat compared to when there is more line out. For polymers strength is usually quite dependent on strain rate because of the level of molecular rearrangement they undergo. High strain rate, polymer chains can't rearrange and align, material becomes brittle. It also plays into the fatigue of the line because of how the loading cycle changes, but that's more complex.

    I don't think it necessarily matters that it be mono, just that you have something that stretches, as Seaguar Premier stretches more than most mono, or at least it has been shown too in the lighter tests than discussed here.
     
  20. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,126)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,012)
    Cow fishing In rough weather or if there are large swells I use a 30' to 50' mono topshot......and back off the drag to prevent bad stuff happening...
     
    Cubeye, Olddog8 and Let em eat 74 like this.
  21. RideHPD

    RideHPD Enthusiastic Idiot Rookie

    Location:
    Del Mar/Marina Del Rey, CA
    Name:
    Eric Marin
    Boat:
    10' Model T
    • Messages:
      (1,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (772)
    I know this is the LR sub and my experience is all with smaller fish than is the general interest, but so far I've liked backing off the drag a bit and use intuition and thumb pressure to lift the fish at the end.
     
  22. RideHPD

    RideHPD Enthusiastic Idiot Rookie

    Location:
    Del Mar/Marina Del Rey, CA
    Name:
    Eric Marin
    Boat:
    10' Model T
    • Messages:
      (1,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (772)
    If you can surf a 6" wave perfectly, you can surf a 60' wave perfectly. But you don't realize bottom turns don't happen immediately and take seconds on a 10' gun until you do it.

    Some techniques aren't always directly translatable, like bouncing, and I try to avoid being misleading whenever I can.
     
  23. Olddog8

    Olddog8 Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Poway,ca
    Name:
    Rick
    Boat:
    Sold long ago
    • Messages:
      (885)
    • Likes Received:
      (915)
    I think it has more to do with slack line. Fish swims up, can't catch up fast enough in low gear. Sometimes you need to lift the rod at the end to keep the line tight enough.
     
    ReelDealAngler- and Bill W like this.

Share This Page