Boat Independence New Engines

FishRock

Still trying to figure it all out
Mar 27, 2013
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JAM
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Thunnus - 22' Koffler BayBee (1990)
They are repowering with twin 630 hp, mechanical Mitsubishi engines. Old engines are already out and new ones being set. No more detail than that.
 
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JohnTFT

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Feb 11, 2007
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The engines they are putting in are ahead of the curve.

They are mechanical engines. Mechanical governors instead of electronic engine controls. Mechanical fuel injection.

Massive block - engine weighs in at 6200 lbs.

All of that reverse technology and the engines remain tier 3 emissions compliant.

Simple to maintain- high torque, great fuel efficiency and no electronics.

It throws the curve out the window.
 

FishRock

Still trying to figure it all out
Mar 27, 2013
1,552
2,041
113
Alaska
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JAM
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Thunnus - 22' Koffler BayBee (1990)
Sounds like totally old school design but built using modern methods. Optimizing the performance with better materials and tighter tolerances.
 

Yellowtail Dan

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 10, 2006
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Dan
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Excel, American Angler
The engines they are putting in are ahead of the curve.

They are mechanical engines. Mechanical governors instead of electronic engine controls. Mechanical fuel injection.

Massive block - engine weighs in at 6200 lbs.

All of that reverse technology and the engines remain tier 3 emissions compliant.

Simple to maintain- high torque, great fuel efficiency and no electronics.

It throws the curve out the window.
All from a company called Mitsubishi, who’d have thunk it
 

Yellowtail Dan

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 10, 2006
2,676
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Dan
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Excel, American Angler
Mitsubishi is a company making heavy equipment/machinery for a long time. Very well established.
I know, the comment was more sarcasm about a high tech company dumbing down the tech and simplifying things
 
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pgangler

12Wt
Jul 25, 2012
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Pacific Grove, Calif
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Ron
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Was Cabo35, now RR3
I really am curious - why are heavy mechanical engines better than lighter, electronically controlled engines? How will the fuel economy actually be better with these? I had a couple of old iron 3208's for many years, so I get the reliability comment, but fuel economy has to mean a lot for the duty cycle these engines will receive.
 

JohnTFT

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Feb 11, 2007
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I really am curious - why are heavy mechanical engines better than lighter, electronically controlled engines? How will the fuel economy actually be better with these? I had a couple of old iron 3208's for many years, so I get the reliability comment, but fuel economy has to mean a lot for the duty cycle these engines will receive.
Great question.

For a LR boat application the slower you can run the engine the more hours and the greater the reliability of those engines will be.

The heavier the engine block in particular the greater the engines ability to withstand the violent combustion cycle that occurs in compression ignition engines. And the Mitsubishi engine is under square - 6.69" bore and a 7.09 inch stroke.

This translates into an engine that makes more torque at a lower RPM and reduced loads on the crankshaft assembly and bearings.

A longer stroke than cylinder bore limits the interaction between hot gases in the combustion chamber. This allows for greater heat transfer (combustion) which will in turn lead to increased force on the crankshaft hence more torque. Which leads to greater fuel efficiencies.

Longer stroke engines will not have the HP to weight ratios that you will see in smaller over square engines especially computer controlled engines.
 
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BiggestT

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 8, 2004
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SM
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Salsipuedes & Czech Mate
Mitsubishi is a company making heavy equipment/machinery for a long time. Very well established.
The same Mitsubishi that fucked up on the pipes at San Onofre Nuclear which resulted in its shut down and decommissioning. San Onofre was the cheapest power source on the grid. Such a shame.
 

jayyyy

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Oct 7, 2008
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jay
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'04 Sea Pro 220 WA / 225 Honda
I'm sure ownership did there homework, it's a business decision. Ten years down the road they want to have saved money through reliability and cost of operation.
 

Elitetv1958

Well-Known "Member"
Sep 20, 2005
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Music
Mitsubishi is a company making heavy equipment/machinery for a long time. Very well established.
My grandfather was in the US Navy during World War II. Mitsubishi built Japanese Zeros and other planes that shot at my grandfather. I won’t be riding the Independence. Yeah, I know it sounds trite, but that‘s how I feel. JMO.
 

JoeInMN

Fishing from 40 below to 120 above..
Sep 10, 2017
171
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minnesota
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Joseph Koep
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American Angler , Ice Castle Fish House
We shall see what happens. Mack has tried this theory in over the road engines in the mid 2000s the result is some of the most unreliable diesels I have ever had the pleasure of working on. To this day on engines of this style. I'm told they dont crack liners or blocks and 90% of liners i see get cracked come from this style. They also eat injectors and injector cups. The idea is heavy block takes the abuse but liners are only so thick.

I dont do marine deisel so I'm not an expert though, tier 3 emissions to marine applications is different then what it means to me. Pray to god you never have to deal with that. It has lead though to amazing common rail engines that outwork and perform anything we have ever had. Reliability of mechanical issues is a non issue, tourqe and horse power amazing. The issues are with emissions and the systems that go along with it. The physical engine is a non issue.


I hope they work great if anybody can do it Mitsubishi is a good outfit . Mack just builds crap so it has probably skewed my view.
 
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Squid Sammich

Well-Known "Member"
Aug 23, 2015
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Matt
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To be determined
Hopefully they have done something to fix that sweatshop known as Room M. Great boat. Great ride. Great layout inside and out. Would never fish it again without a reassurance I would not be in room M.
 

Cubeye

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jan 26, 2007
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Kub
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17' Gregor
My grandfather was in the US Navy during World War II. Mitsubishi built Japanese Zeros and other planes that shot at my grandfather. I won’t be riding the Independence. Yeah, I know it sounds trite, but that‘s how I feel. JMO.
They made tanks too. Guess you won't be riding a VW either.
 

JohnTFT

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Feb 11, 2007
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[QUOTE="JoeInMN, post: 5050631, member: 199620"

I dont do marine deisel so I'm not an expert though, tier 3 emissions to marine applications is different then what it means to me. Pray to god you never have to deal with that. It has lead though to amazing common rail engines that outwork and perform anything we have ever had. Reliability of mechanical issues is a non issue, tourqe and horse power amazing. The issues are with emissions and the systems that go along with it. The physical engine is a non issue.

I hope they work great if anybody can do it Mitsubishi is a good outfit . Mack just builds crap so it has probably skewed my view.
[/QUOTE]

Joel great stuff!
So true. Its a shame what has become of Mack (ehem - Volvo)

I had an E7 in one of my commercial boats - was impossible to hurt it.
I dont know how many hours we had on it. With zero! zero! issues.

Tier 4 over 600HP is going to be a shit show.

They are talking catalytic exhaust with some type of DEF system. And the USCG is talking about having a ridiculous percentage of DEF storage on board the vessels.
 

JoeInMN

Fishing from 40 below to 120 above..
Sep 10, 2017
171
157
43
39
minnesota
Name
Joseph Koep
Boat
American Angler , Ice Castle Fish House
[QUOTE="JoeInMN, post: 5050631, member: 199620"

I dont do marine deisel so I'm not an expert though, tier 3 emissions to marine applications is different then what it means to me. Pray to god you never have to deal with that. It has lead though to amazing common rail engines that outwork and perform anything we have ever had. Reliability of mechanical issues is a non issue, tourqe and horse power amazing. The issues are with emissions and the systems that go along with it. The physical engine is a non issue.

I hope they work great if anybody can do it Mitsubishi is a good outfit . Mack just builds crap so it has probably skewed my view.
Joel great stuff!
So true. Its a shame what has become of Mack (ehem - Volvo)

I had an E7 in one of my commercial boats - was impossible to hurt it.
I dont know how many hours we had on it. With zero! zero! issues.

Tier 4 over 600HP is going to be a shit show.

They are talking catalytic exhaust with some type of DEF system. And the USCG is talking about having a ridiculous percentage of DEF storage on board the vessels.
[/QUOTE]

I hope DEF and the Nox monitoring that comes along with it doesn't happen, the repair bill's and failures of the systems are unreal.

I replaced 9 SCRs the catalyst chamber, this year in 1 year old trucks thank god for warranty 10k a piece without labor.

I have 2 E7s left in the 3 fleets I oversee the state of MN is paying us 30k each to get rid of them this year , sad to see them go but money talks to the guys more important than me.

If this mistsu system works boats would be smart to buy now before the government tells them they cant, or requires DEF.
 
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tuner

pysgotwyr
May 24, 2006
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Steve
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260 Mackinaw
I dont do marine deisel so I'm not an expert though, tier 3 emissions to marine applications is different then what it means to me. Pray to god you never have to deal with that. It has lead though to amazing common rail engines that outwork and perform anything we have ever had. Reliability of mechanical issues is a non issue, tourqe and horse power amazing. The issues are with emissions and the systems that go along with it. The physical engine is a non issue.
So true, EGR, urea injection and particle filters cause most of the problems associated with new diesel engines.

Common rail diesel is superior to mechanical due to its infinitely adjustable fuel volume and timing. Reliability is more a function of HP/ Displacement than engine mass, compacted graphite blocks are far lighter and stronger than old grey iron blocks of yore. Undersquare engines produce more low speed torque due to the increased lever arm of the crank but at the same time are less efficient at high engine speeds due to higher piston speeds and less valve area, thereby producing lower HP/Displacement than high-speed oversquare engines.
 

JohnTFT

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Feb 11, 2007
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I agree 100% that common rail is the way to go.

But, not in the Marine setting for offshore vessels like a LR boat.

Most engineers on these boats would need to go to training to understand the complexity of the systems. Owners would have to invest in scan tools and Fluke meters. Carry spare hard parts and spare sensors.

Very different environment than over the road fleets where support is a phone call away.

Can I get my V16-71 Natural Detroit back!!

Best engine I have ever owned in a boat.

The E7 was close but the Detroit was a beast.
 
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PacificBlue

Member
Nov 25, 2011
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For us laymen this is all so confusing.
I will simplify it for you. They went with an off brand, as opposed to CAT, Cummins or others because it was cheaper. They also get Government money to assist on repower, so they came up with a low out of pocket solution.
 
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la vida

Now I love our Prezzz!!!
Jun 28, 2006
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El Cazonn
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Frank F
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Boat-less (Sad)
All those electronics/ computer driven motors have one large defect. The normal can fix anything Captain/ Engineer is lost when some code fails. I always though they were a mistake on sport boats.
Shit breaks and w/o a tec need your pooched. My .02