Anyone with experience with VMC 8386PS circle hook

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locvetter

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    Trolling around the internet for a strong, stealthy, sharp, yada yada hook, noticed these, which I had never seen in the flesh. Bought a few, and am impressed that they are significantly stronger than any light hook, or even such hooks as the Frenzy. Stronger than Mutu, not as strong as Super Mutu. They are sharp -- with my poke-it-into-my-wife's-tennis-ball test. I like the flat gray color. I like, in this brand, another hook, called the Dynamic.

    Anybody tried them using 80# or higher?? Actually, anybody even seen them?
    VMC 8386PS.JPG

    VMC circle.JPG
     
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    Fishybuzz

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    Loc that appears to be a perfectly fine big bait hook......I really enjoy your enthusiasm and your testing of the various terminal components.....most I find interesting since most of us are tackle junkies... but just like golf or tennis or skiing the equipment can only do so much to improve your performance you can do all the scientific tests and purchase the "ultimate" set of wiz bang clubs and the best test proven balls and that really will not improve your game without actual practice and playing...more important than chasing the perfect hook, reel, line, rod is time on the water refining and perfecting technique with some set of gear you settle on....ie tying good connections....learning to effectively hook baits in several methods to meet the conditions....learning how to fly line a bait.....how to correctly set a circle hook...how to adapt to changing conditions....how to correctly set your drag are as or imo more important that the tackle you chose....if one is constantly changing gear I think it would be hard to determine what is working and what is not not....

    But I digress ... I really enjoy your testing and hope you continue to share the results with us.. but real world testing hooked up to a fish the water is IMO the only way to see if a set up will work for the application intended....I am probably the most guilty of anyone when it comes to trying new stuff.....but I usually start fishing with tried true equipment.....when fishing for cows I am still using the same exact brand and style of hook that I caught my first cow with 14 years ago....all my other tackle has changed ...reels, rods, line, connections but those charges came from actual on water experiences. Just some random Saturday morning thoughts.
     
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    locvetter

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    So true. Thanks for the reminder.

    I am still using the same exact brand and style of hook that I caught my first cow with 14 years ago
    Cool. And that hook is,...?

    Very challenging practicing selecting and catching the best bait and getting the hook pinned just right, while here in Salem, Oregon. Likely similar in AZ. Gotta do what you can.

    I have probably two dozen different hoo trolling lures, will probably put on the same purple and black mirror sided thing I used at Clarion in 1986.
     
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    TOTW

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    VMC makes lots of good hooks. My only experience with their circles is the Nemesis 8382 model. Unfortunately, we broke three of these right at the barb at Guadalupe a few years ago, and that was it for me. These 8386 models appear to have that same hard bend that may be a weakness.

    I was able to convey the feedback to VMC. They essentially came back with, “yes, they’ll break there if the hook sticks in a hard spot.”

    Since these are “tournament” hooks, I assume that they’re not offset which means they’re more likely to purchase the corner of the mouth, though.
     
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    locvetter

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    VMC makes lots of good hooks. My only experience with their circles is the Nemesis 8382 model. Unfortunately, we broke three of these right at the barb at Guadalupe a few years ago, and that was it for me. These 8386 models appear to have that same hard bend that may be a weakness.

    I was able to convey the feedback to VMC. They essentially came back with, “yes, they’ll break there if the hook sticks in a hard spot.”

    Since these are “tournament” hooks, I assume that they’re not offset which means they’re more likely to purchase the corner of the mouth, though.
    And that is why I started this thread. Thank you for that information -- I can't think of another way to avoid a potentially disappointing hook fail than to learn from the experience of others.

    THANK YOU!
     
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    hagridfish

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    I really like the eagle claw 2004. 16/0 up to 20/0 Big bait hooks for big fish! Never had one break off, or straighten out on me. JMHO
     
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    Fishybuzz

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    So true. Thanks for the reminder.


    Cool. And that hook is,...?

    Very challenging practicing selecting and catching the best bait and getting the hook pinned just right, while here in Salem, Oregon. Likely similar in AZ. Gotta do what you can.

    I have probably two dozen different hoo trolling lures, will probably put on the same purple and black mirror sided thing I used at Clarion in 1986.


    I use Eagle Claw 2004's....non offset....Mike Lackey recommended them on my first cow trip with him...Caught a cow on that trip and never changed.
     
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    Steve K

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    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    vmc dynamic j hooks are the ones. I think the #is 9660. moving away from owner because some owner hooks (that's not an offshore) are close to barbless
    7360, a very unique hook. Very strong.
     
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    locvetter

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    7360, a very unique hook. Very strong.
    There was a discussion on BD about the ringed version of the VMC 7630, and caution was raised about the wire gauge size of the ring. I had already ordered some, and, indeed, the ring is of unusually small gauge. However, on my testing machine, it did not deform under any lighter loads than did the Owners or Mustads. The effect of the lighter gauge on knot strength I have not yet tested.
     
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    Fishybuzz

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    There was a discussion on BD about the ringed version of the VMC 7630, and caution was raised about the wire gauge size of the ring. I had already ordered some, and, indeed, the ring is of unusually small gauge. However, on my testing machine, it did not deform under any lighter loads than did the Owners or Mustads. The effect of the lighter gauge on knot strength I have not yet tested.


    I use them without rings....I tie a uni knot with a loop which serves the same purpose as the ring with out the added weight...when you get a bite and set the hook the loop will cinch up tight to the eye of the hook...
     
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    Steve K

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    There was a discussion on BD about the ringed version of the VMC 7630, and caution was raised about the wire gauge size of the ring. I had already ordered some, and, indeed, the ring is of unusually small gauge. However, on my testing machine, it did not deform under any lighter loads than did the Owners or Mustads. The effect of the lighter gauge on knot strength I have not yet tested.
    I’m not so sure the concern was the size of the ring as much as how it is constructed. It’s not wire, not round, it’s stamped, similar to the rings I’ve seen on some other hooks. Concern is the ring has sharp edges and might cut your line.

    Check that out for us, you could be the “Myth Buster” of BD! :)
     
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    locvetter

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    I’m not so sure the concern was the size of the ring as much as how it is constructed. It’s not wire, not round, it’s stamped, similar to the rings I’ve seen on some other hooks. Concern is the ring has sharp edges and might cut your line.

    Check that out for us, you could be the “Myth Buster” of BD! :)
    Hey Steve,
    So after I got home it took me a while to find those ringed VMC 7630's. I have them in 3/0 and 6/0. My recollection is correct, they are nice round welded rings, but are of a smaller gauge than comes on say Owners or, seen here for comparison, rings welded by Guy at RingedHooks.com to a Frenzy 6/0.

    Again, per my trying to break them, both are VERY strong. Both rings are round in cross-section.
    3:0VMC6:0GuyFrenzy.jpg
    6:0vm6:0GuyFrenzy.jpg
     
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    Steve K

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    I acquired a bag of 50 each 5/0 and 3/0. Have been cutting off the rings, stamped rings, no welds.
    The pictures you are showing look nothing like the Ringed Dynamics that I have.

    Can I see pictures of the hook with the ring? I’ll get out to the garage and snap a pic or two of mine.
     
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    locvetter

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    I acquired a bag of 50 each 5/0 and 3/0. Have been cutting off the rings, stamped rings, no welds.
    The pictures you are showing look nothing like the Ringed Dynamics that I have.

    Can I see pictures of the hook with the ring? I’ll get out to the garage and snap a pic or two of mine.
    I got mine from e-bay. They came from Italy. I could not find a US vender for the ringed version. Trophy Tackle had the unringed version. I think Guy sells ones that he has ringed. The packages looked factory sealed when I received them. This was, I think, about a year ago.
    VMC 7360R 3:0.JPG
    VMC 7360R 33:0 and 6:0.JPG
     
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    jiggyn

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    I got mine from e-bay. They came from Italy. I could not find a US vender for the ringed version. Trophy Tackle had the unringed version. I think Guy sells ones that he has ringed. The packages looked factory sealed when I received them. This was, I think, about a year ago.
    View attachment 968646View attachment 968648

    if iam correct those are the old ones using the vanadium steel, very very good hooks "which ive horded"
    the newer version is good but different material
     
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    locvetter

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    This thread has evolved, enjoyably, but broadly. A summary, based on my response to a very helpful message about one boat that has mentioned failures with "VMC's"

    My response to that message:

    Point taken -- pun incidental. Of interest is that the three VMC hooks with which I have any familiarity are very different, one from the other. The 8386PS, which was the topic of the thread, has a very different tip than the 8382, mentioned as easily breakable. The breaking one has a very long needle shaped tip, that I can break off. When I do the same plier assault on the 8386PS, it does not. (Well, it will if I am really nasty with it, but I can break almost any tip with pliers.)

    The 7360 and 7360R (ringed) are J hooks, made from different material, different color, different point, different shape, and seem as strong as the Owner Gorilla, Mustad Demon, Hayabusa similar, or the Eagle Claw Trokar. (I am leaning away from the Trokar because several have commented they either think it can or have seen it cut out.)

    Bottom line: If a company is willing to market one hook that is known to fail with unacceptable frequency, there is inescapable worry about their full line - why fish with that lurking little concern there are so many wonderful options.

     
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    Fishybuzz

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    Another hook I avoid is all Owner hooks with the "cutting point" as they will continue to cut and enlarge the hole IMO....I do like the Owner Offshore and Jobu hooks.
     
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    Steve K

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    Couple of pics. Side by side, ringed 5/0 and 3/0 VMC Dynamic
    Then, a closeup of the rings I cut off.

    Not sure if you can tell with these cell phone pics, but these are the stamped rings, not the welded ones. If your knot was on a hook eye that had edges like these on the rings, you might justifiably be concerned about your line getting cut. But with the ringed hook, the pivot point is ring to hook, knot on the ring not as subject to getting cut. I think I'll try one of the 3/0 ringed hooks on my 2.5 day, if we have bait large enough to support the size of the hook. I'll get back to you.

    As far as avoiding the full line of hooks from a manufacturer, I don't think I would make that blanket statement. Example is the Mustad line. Some failures have been reported with the Demon hooks as well as the Hoodlums. Not so much with the 7691DT.

    20181003_084032.jpg 20181003_084107.jpg
     
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    locvetter

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    Couple of pics. Side by side, ringed 5/0 and 3/0 VMC Dynamic
    Then, a closeup of the rings I cut off.

    Not sure if you can tell with these cell phone pics, but these are the stamped rings, not the welded ones. If your knot was on a hook eye that had edges like these on the rings, you might justifiably be concerned about your line getting cut. But with the ringed hook, the pivot point is ring to hook, knot on the ring not as subject to getting cut. I think I'll try one of the 3/0 ringed hooks on my 2.5 day, if we have bait large enough to support the size of the hook. I'll get back to you.

    As far as avoiding the full line of hooks from a manufacturer, I don't think I would make that blanket statement. Example is the Mustad line. Some failures have been reported with the Demon hooks as well as the Hoodlums. Not so much with the 7691DT.

    View attachment 968678 View attachment 968679
    Your rings definitely have an oval or flattened profile, which is different that those I received. Interesting contrast. Thanks.
     
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    Steve K

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    locvetter

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    Couple of pics. Side by side, ringed 5/0 and 3/0 VMC Dynamic
    Then, a closeup of the rings I cut off.

    Not sure if you can tell with these cell phone pics, but these are the stamped rings, not the welded ones. If your knot was on a hook eye that had edges like these on the rings, you might justifiably be concerned about your line getting cut. But with the ringed hook, the pivot point is ring to hook, knot on the ring not as subject to getting cut. I think I'll try one of the 3/0 ringed hooks on my 2.5 day, if we have bait large enough to support the size of the hook. I'll get back to you.

    As far as avoiding the full line of hooks from a manufacturer, I don't think I would make that blanket statement. Example is the Mustad line. Some failures have been reported with the Demon hooks as well as the Hoodlums. Not so much with the 7691DT.

    View attachment 968678 View attachment 968679
    Just got the hooks from Italy. Completely different ring than what I showed. It is your ring, and no doubt the ring that Bill did not like. My old hooks were in Vmc packaging, so vmc must have changed. While I like these dynamic hooks, I am coming to distrust the company.
    The ones I just got are like yours, or even flatter.
     
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