And... yet another skipjack rebuild. Help needed

Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Clean looking work so far! Congrats on that BFT!!!! I am North of you in Galt

Did you end up picking up the skipjack? If you did and you want to swing by and check out my project let me know. Maybe we can bounce ideas off each other.
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Finally got the coosa glued into the transom. What a nightmare in 100 degree weather and doing it solo. Even having everything layed out and planned out ahead of time, it was scary close to going wrong many times. The amount of thickened epoxy having to be mixed up in small batches was really tough. It was a hustle to get everything in place and coated before it started to kick. Got it all in somehow and screwed into place. I used about 30 screws from the outside to pull the two layers of coosa tight to the transom. Initially I had boards cut to push the coosa from the inside but it was putting a bow in the back of the transom. I think it came from the factory slightly rounded off to the sides but I wanted it flat for the bracket mounting surface. I managed to take the curve out while closing in the original I/o hole and glassing the back before the coosa. I also filled any gaps around the sides and bottom and made fillets with thickened epoxy and 1/4 strand. Barely had enough time to shower before heading off to work. Tomorrow I'll do a light sanding and pull the screws to get a real good look at everything. For as wrong as everything seemed to go I'm confident that in the end it turned out solid.

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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Forgot to add that I coated both sides of all pieces with thickened epoxy before setting them in place. The 3/4" coosa board went in first and then the 1.5" piece went in last.
 
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agarcia

Member
May 19, 2006
251
175
Nor*Cal
Name
Art Garcia
Boat
rowboat
Making your own thickened resin putties is the worst. There’s premixed structural putties that you can just add catalyst too, they’re a ton easier to work with. I’ve been using fiberlay Structural Putty for filling holes in foam core on my Whaler then glassing over. For larger projects like transoms, I’m pretty sure arjay has a structural bonding compound specifically for that purpose. Much more user friendly.
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Got the coosa fully glassed in. 2 layers of 1708 tabbing at 6" and 10" wide. Then 2 sheets in the center to bring it up to the same height as the 2 layers of tabbing. One fitting just inside the wider tabbing and the other just inside the smaller tabbing. Then 2 sheets the size of the entire coosa transom to tie in the tabbing and center sheets. After that 2 full sheets extending over the tabbing all around with relief cuts to fit the corners. It ends up being 6 layers across the entire transom and 4 layers of tabbing around the sides. I think when I get the stringers in I'll do some additional tabbing on the sides extending farther forward and some tabbing extending higher up on the top. But for now I'm confident I can cut out the rest of the stringer and floors and the boat should hold her shape.

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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
The only place I had any air bubbles was on the final layer around the outer edges. None around the corners or over the transom itself. At that point the transom was incredibly hot and I had been in a tyvek suit for 5 hours and decided I'll just sand the areas down if it is needed when it dries. 5 hours in near 100 temps in a sweat suit and I was ok with having to sand a few non critical areas in the future. Lol.
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Started cutting out the floor section above the gas tank. The stringers were almost as light as the foam around the gas tank. It was broken into lots of pieces and reminded me of styrofoam. It was very light and brittle. You can see in one of the pictures how's it's broken into pieces.

I got most of it removed and cut an inspection hole to get a view under the cabin floor. There is another bulkhead in front of the one enclosing the front of the gas tank. I'm trying to decide the best way to remove as little of the cabin as possible to access the forward parts of the stringers and that most forward bulkhead. I don't want to rebuild the entire cabin floor pan if I can avoid it. I'd much rather cut it out in a way that I can glass the piece back in. Tomorrow I will take a good hard look at it and make a decision. Anyone else done this or have ideas?

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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
One more question I have. I noticed that for the most part the stringers do not contact the hull. There are quite a few spots where resin ran underneath the stringer and filled the voids but it looks like the intention was to keep them floating above the hull. Am I wrong in thinking that I could bed the entire stringer in thickened epoxy? Should I float the stringers completely and tab them in floating? How would I create a good bond on the layers of tabbing around the lower radius without fillets if I do float them? I'm still a couple weeks away from doing the stringers but I would appreciate any input. From what I can find online it seems the consensus is bed them entirely or float them entirely. It appears floating them was skipjacks intention.
 
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Dragon

It is what it is...
May 24, 2006
422
297
SLO Co.
Name
Paul
Boat
22' Pro Sport CC / 20' Skipjack Open
Floating them doesn't make sense to me? And the stringers that are as light as foam and broken is "Not Good". I don't know how it could be better forward either. Hate to be the Bummer but what I see in the photo is all Bad. I would like to hear what others think myself. GL
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Floating them doesn't make sense to me? And the stringers that are as light as foam and broken is "Not Good". I don't know how it could be better forward either. Hate to be the Bummer but what I see in the photo is all Bad. I would like to hear what others think myself. GL

Sorry I might not have been clear on the stringers. I am cutting them all the way out and replacing them. I was just unsure of how to install the new ones I'm putting in. The only thing I was considering glassing back in is any of the cabin interior fiberglass that I may have to cut out. Like the floor pan and seating area. My two biggest concerns right now are how to cut the cabin to access the stringers up front in a way that I can glass the cabin pieces back in if possible. To avoid rebuilding it from scratch. The second concern is floating the stringers or bedding them. I've never gone so in depth in a boat rebuild so I'm unsure of it all. The internet seems to be full of contradictory info on almost every aspect of boat building. I can't seem to find one thing that all builders agree on. Haha. It leaves an ignorant person like me completely confused. I'll try to be clearer with my questions.
 
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Dragon

It is what it is...
May 24, 2006
422
297
SLO Co.
Name
Paul
Boat
22' Pro Sport CC / 20' Skipjack Open
Josh,
Gotcha, You are on the right path, replace the stringers and bed them into the hull, then tab and laminate. Create any drainage holes etc. There are several threads recently that guys have replaced stringers and/or fuel tanks, decks, copy there processes. I think you get that you need to get your surfaces prepped and ready including getting a coat or 2 on any raw wood (new stringers) after they are cut to fit. could even laminate them prior to installing them.

About the cabin area. Thats a tuff one? I guess you are contemplating surgery through the liner....???
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Josh,
Gotcha, You are on the right path, replace the stringers and bed them into the hull, then tab and laminate. Create any drainage holes etc. There are several threads recently that guys have replaced stringers and/or fuel tanks, decks, copy there processes. I think you get that you need to get your surfaces prepped and ready including getting a coat or 2 on any raw wood (new stringers) after they are cut to fit. could even laminate them prior to installing them.

About the cabin area. Thats a tuff one? I guess you are contemplating surgery through the liner....???


Exactly right! I'm trying to figure out how to do the surgery on stringers and bulkheads under the cabin with the least invasive cutting. Great analogy! I'm hoping to cut along natural bends to better hide the seams when I go to glass it back in. I'm not sure if I should cut the entire cabin out along the sides and remove it all or just cut the center floor out and attempt to do it that way. I'm taking the weekend off from boat projects so I'll do some more head scratching next week. I'll do some searching for recent projects like you mentioned. Thanks for helping.
 
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fishgrappler

Member
Jul 4, 2015
384
270
Name
Bru
Boat
Skipjack 24 Open
One more question I have. I noticed that for the most part the stringers do not contact the hull. There are quite a few spots where resin ran underneath the stringer and filled the voids but it looks like the intention was to keep them floating above the hull. Am I wrong in thinking that I could bed the entire stringer in thickened epoxy? Should I float the stringers completely and tab them in floating? How would I create a good bond on the layers of tabbing around the lower radius without fillets if I do float them? I'm still a couple weeks away from doing the stringers but I would appreciate any input. From what I can find online it seems the consensus is bed them entirely or float them entirely. It appears floating them was skipjacks intention.

My Skipjack stringers were the same - floating just off the hull. If you search around, you'll see that most rebuilders do the same. The theory is that if the wood stringers are in direct contact with the hull, it creates a "hard spot". If/when the hull flexes, the hard spots can create cracks in the hull, or gel coat.

I don't know how true this is but I rebuilt my stringers floating, just in case they are right. Some guys use little square foam cutouts under the stringers, and leave them glassed in. I used Home Depot paint mixing sticks cut into 1" squares.

I squeezed thickened resin under the stringers and used a rounded mixing stick to form the fillet. From my internet research, this is what most people do. Skipjack left a void between the hull and stringers.

Your glass work looks great. Let me know when you're available to come over and help with my build.
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
My Skipjack stringers were the same - floating just off the hull. If you search around, you'll see that most rebuilders do the same. The theory is that if the wood stringers are in direct contact with the hull, it creates a "hard spot". If/when the hull flexes, the hard spots can create cracks in the hull, or gel coat.

I don't know how true this is but I rebuilt my stringers floating, just in case they are right. Some guys use little square foam cutouts under the stringers, and leave them glassed in. I used Home Depot paint mixing sticks cut into 1" squares.

I squeezed thickened resin under the stringers and used a rounded mixing stick to form the fillet. From my internet research, this is what most people do. Skipjack left a void between the hull and stringers.

Your glass work looks great. Let me know when you're available to come over and help with my build.

Thanks fishgrappler. It is actually pretty impressive how they managed to float the entire stringer system and glass them in without any fillets. I've thought about how they did this quite a bit. There are several half moon cutouts in the stringers, and at first I was thinking this was to drain water. But they are in weird areas that didn't make any sense. I think this is probably where they put a half round in place to space the stringer off the hull and then layed some glass to hold them in place and then removed them and finished glassing? I'm not sure though and I do tend to overthink things.

I'd be glad to come over and help you with your project. Just as soon as I get my boat finished. At the rate of progress right now I'll pencil you in for sometime in 2025 haha.
I'd definitely like to check your project out though if your local to me. It looks like your moving along pretty well with your skippy. I'm in Manteca.
 
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fishgrappler

Member
Jul 4, 2015
384
270
Name
Bru
Boat
Skipjack 24 Open
Thanks fishgrappler. It is actually pretty impressive how they managed to float the entire stringer system and glass them in without any fillets. I've thought about how they did this quite a bit. There are several half moon cutouts in the stringers, and at first I was thinking this was to drain water. But they are in weird areas that didn't make any sense. I think this is probably where they put a half round in place to space the stringer off the hull and then layed some glass to hold them in place and then removed them and finished glassing? I'm not sure though and I do tend to overthink things.

I'd be glad to come over and help you with your project. Just as soon as I get my boat finished. At the rate of progress right now I'll pencil you in for sometime in 2025 haha.
I'd definitely like to check your project out though if your local to me. It looks like your moving along pretty well with your skippy. I'm in Manteca.

That's perfect, I was expecting to finish by 2018, so 2025 is not out of the question.

I'm in Costa Mesa. Maybe I'll see you on the water... around 2027
 
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SkipJack Boats

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Advertiser
Jul 8, 2020
237
193
65
Oak Hills, CA
www.skipjackyachts.com
Name
Michael Englebrecht
Boat
25 ft Skipjack
Get used to hearing how stout and seaworthy they are. What a following they have...Might want to post the thread in "Boat Customization" ?

Cant wait, Subscribed
I hear that all day long. (the Skipjhack Cult)
Anytime I can help please call me.
BigMike
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Well I've got the back 3/4's of the boat ground down and ready for stringers to be installed. I haven't cut any of the cabin area out for fear of the boat flexing out of shape. I'm going to install the back 2/3 of the stringers and bulkheads and then cut out the cabin area. I didn't intend to cut out the entire cabin and rebuild it but as with everything else that I thought could be saved, nope. My 1.5" coosa for the stringers was suppose to be here this week but got delayed another 2 weeks so ill be focusing on the outer transom. I have a bunch of screw holes and the scupper holes to patch. I'm going to lay a layer of 1708 over the entire transom once I get the holes all patched. It's a lot of extra work but I don't want to risk any of the repairs haloing through the paint in the future. Im sure it's going to be fun to fair. The bracket should be here within a few weeks and that's exciting! I test fit the 111 gallon poly tank and it fits perfectly in between the stringers. I'll be sliding it forward about a foot past the original so that the rear of the tank lands in the same spot as the original tank did. It's about a foot longer. It will slide right under the stepdown to the cabin without any structural modification. I'll be building full height stringer for the center 2 so that the floor can land on them. The outer stringers I am considering shortening the height of in a few areas for better fishwell storage. In the places that I do shorten them I plan on doubling the thickness to 3" to hopefully keep the strength. Does this seem like a reasonable thing to do? I'm also starting my shopping list for electrical wiring, pumps, thru-hulls, and hoses. All the things that will be easier to do before the floor is installed. I am avoiding the shopping list for electronics for now because it terrifies me to think of what that is going to cost. That's all to report for now. I should have a good amount of progress to report in a few weeks.

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40Grit

Member
Sep 9, 2009
738
358
Newport Beach California
Name
Steve Brown
Boat
Radovich 34
Dear BassCat, really have enjoyed your shared project. Great work. Please keep the photos and problem solving coming. I’m in the glass business, and have done many like yours. I do some things different because I’m in business, meaning I’ve got to stay as practical as possible $ epoxy is a fabulous choice for your project, for us the cost and cure time can’t compete with vynlester.
it’s what we use by the drum.
when we get to the stage your at, we will laminate the entire bottom, then all secondary bonds have a fresh landing. I believe that the gap under production boats Stringers, has more to do with production. Not any deeper thinking about stress cracking. Boats we build have longitudinal and frames as tight and accurate as possible. Generally set in thickened resin. We then radius the joint using more thickened resin. then will use two layers of biaxial 1708 with a first layer of three oz mat. But we’re using vynlester not epoxy. Mat and epoxy don’t get along. As many products have resin soluble sizing that breakdown when introduced to resin. Epoxy is different chemistry. Also with epoxy you need to really grind your secondary bond areas. The epoxy blush will leave an oily residue on top that needs to be removed.
what do you think your project should cost at my shop ?
steve

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Basscatjosh

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Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
Dear BassCat, really have enjoyed your shared project. Great work. Please keep the photos and problem solving coming. I’m in the glass business, and have done many like yours. I do some things different because I’m in business, meaning I’ve got to stay as practical as possible $ epoxy is a fabulous choice for your project, for us the cost and cure time can’t compete with vynlester.
it’s what we use by the drum.
when we get to the stage your at, we will laminate the entire bottom, then all secondary bonds have a fresh landing. I believe that the gap under production boats Stringers, has more to do with production. Not any deeper thinking about stress cracking. Boats we build have longitudinal and frames as tight and accurate as possible. Generally set in thickened resin. We then radius the joint using more thickened resin. then will use two layers of biaxial 1708 with a first layer of three oz mat. But we’re using vynlester not epoxy. Mat and epoxy don’t get along. As many products have resin soluble sizing that breakdown when introduced to resin. Epoxy is different chemistry. Also with epoxy you need to really grind your secondary bond areas. The epoxy blush will leave an oily residue on top that needs to be removed.
what do you think your project should cost at my shop ?
steve

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I can't tell you what it should cost because Im not in the business. What I will say is that in materials alone for epoxy and glass supplies and coosa I am in over $5k. Probably closer to 6k. That's just for transom, stringers and flooring (cabin area rebuild included). You could easily cut that cost in half with wood and polyester. If I was going to get a bid at a shop for it to be built exactly how I am doing it with all the same materials, I wouldn't be surprised if I got quoted 12k-18k. That's because I am very familiar with the man hours involved. Now if you throw in a new motor, gauges and controls with hydro steering (28-32k), fuel tank($800), all electronics(4-5k), wiring, pumps, thru-hulls (2k), suspension seats( I paid $800 for an almost new pair and think I got a killer deal), well now your talking close to 50k in just material cost and parts. I think I'm starting to talk myself out of this project lol. I am curious though. If you did this at your shop with epoxy and coosa what would you charge? And trust me, whatever number you give will not be shocking to me after doing all this work. Unless your quote is under 10k. Then I'd be really shocked haha.
 
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40Grit

Member
Sep 9, 2009
738
358
Newport Beach California
Name
Steve Brown
Boat
Radovich 34
I can't tell you what it should cost because Im not in the business. What I will say is that in materials alone for epoxy and glass supplies and coosa I am in over $5k. Probably closer to 6k. That's just for transom, stringers and flooring (cabin area rebuild included). You could easily cut that cost in half with wood and polyester. If I was going to get a bid at a shop for it to be built exactly how I am doing it with all the same materials, I wouldn't be surprised if I got quoted 12k-18k. That's because I am very familiar with the man hours involved. Now if you throw in a new motor, gauges and controls with hydro steering (28-32k), fuel tank($800), all electronics(4-5k), wiring, pumps, thru-hulls (2k), suspension seats( I paid $800 for an almost new pair and think I got a killer deal), well now your talking close to 50k in just material cost and parts. I think I'm starting to talk myself out of this project lol. I am curious though. If you did this at your shop with epoxy and coosa what would you charge? And trust me, whatever number you give will not be shocking to me after doing all this work. Unless your quote is under 10k. Then I'd be really shocked haha.
God bless you, I simply wanted folks to know how difficult it is to estimate these projects. Like you, I take pride in solving restoration projects, that means discovery, and time. Keep the photos coming. I’m thinking with our flat mold, we might help develop the deck for you. I’ve been thinking about making a simple mold for the skipjack to make projects like yours go easier? Hatches and openings Built in reverse on a flat mold?
just some thoughts
Steve
 
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Basscatjosh

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Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
I made a previous post about the transom angle for ordering a bracket on the skipjack. Originally I posted 10° and I was incorrect. While building the transom knees I realized the center line angle is actually 13° and not 10°. Thankfully I figured this out before the bracket was made. The Chine line angle is 10 but the measurement must be taken from the keel line. I just wanted to make sure that noone orders a bracket on my original numbers for their Skippy 24 open. The post has been edited and I apologise. Another thing to add, AandJ marine / (custommarinewelding.com) has been an awesome company to deal with. Kat is extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I can't recommend them enough. I will also say that there prices are surprisingly affordable compared to the other big name brackets. I'll post detailed pictures of the bracket when it arrives.

A couple things to add when ordering your bracket. I gave them the measurements of where my stringers land on the transom so that no bolts will land in those areas. I added an underside ladder (mainly for boarding the boat while on the trailer), a kicker mount on the opposite side and handles around the perimeter( for strapping and securing coolers or livewell etc.). Also be sure you have enough setback to accommodate whatever motor you intend to run. There has to be clearance for tilting the motor all the way up. Think fishing line wrapped around the prop offshore. You want full tilt to clear any prop obstructions.
 
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Basscatjosh

Newbie
Jun 14, 2018
65
58
Nor cal
Name
Josh
Boat
Basscat Pantera classic, trophy cc, Cajun, jonboat, trident 13 ocean kayak
A few photo updates. Just working on cutting the stringers to fit properly. The center two will be full height. The outer stringers will remain stock height except for where I will be building fish boxes. The bilge area has the center stringers cut lower for access. You will see this come into play later on when I build shelf's for mounting pumps in the bilge. Hopefully have the stringers bedded in next week. I'm going to focus on leveling the boat today and getting the glass precut. I also have several more jigs to cut for keeping the stringers centered and parallel. I used foam as all my templates. It's very easy to cut and shape and make adjustments. Then it gets transferred to the coosa and cut.

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