Airmar Wide Chirp & GSD-26 decisions

Discussion in 'Washington Fishing Reports' started by PSULion, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. PSULion

    PSULion Member

    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    Name:
    Barry
    Boat:
    Hewes, Coldwater
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    Starting a separate discussion related to the garmin thru hull transducer thread but specific to my boat build...

    I'm researching transducer options right now and know I'll be getting the Airmar 1KW wide band chirp thru hull to mate to three Garmin 8612's, but it's hard to decide which models are best for my application.

    Holes will be drilled in the hull, so I'd like to fill them with the right equipment the first time and with the future in mind, even it it's overkill *for now*.

    My situation:

    - aluminum hull
    - salmon, bottom fish, and perhaps trolling for tuna when I make an infrequent run to the blue.
    - Garmin network (MFD 8612 x3)
    - thru hull transducer(s) will be midship ~13 feet ahead of the transom back.
    - Garmin PS30 panoptix down-vue/live-vue for when trolling and bottom-fishing, flush-mounted off the pod.
    - boat will be wet-slipped year round, never beached, pulled onto trailer for service in DIY yard.
    Decision points:

    1) Fairing block vs. traditional thru-hull cylinder. I'd prefer not to have the fairing block due to its taller profile (turbulence, damage from debris, trailer clearances, etc.), but if the performance is better than cylinder then will consider. Would like to hear pros/cons of those who run a fairing block, I've never experienced one.

    2) SS275-LHW 1KW fairing block (custom, per @53driver in the other thread) vs. SS175-HW + SS175-M 1KW cylinders. There is no SS175-MW, so the combo isn't quite apples-to-apples with the SS275-LHW, but I'm not sure I need wide beam for depths > 500'? I also don't know if two physically separate ducers will interfere with each other or if the MFD user experience will be a PITA. I've never ran more than one before.

    3) Do I need a GSD-26 or will the transceivers in the 8612's suffice? From what little I've been able to find online, the GSD-26 seems to only be needed for 2KW+. What do I lose at 1KW without the GSD-26? Would be nice to see screen shots with and without the black box if anyone has any.

    Would appreciate feedback from the transducer experts out there.

    thx, Barry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  2. Genie Aye

    Genie Aye FISH BOSS

    Location:
    Renton/ Westport
    Name:
    Cap't Paul
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    V-20 Wellcraft w/200HO E-TEC
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    Well, i had 2 fairing blocks on my 33' sportfisher, never had a issue with them, worked great, had a si tex color video sounder, worked awesome, even at high speeds. Never broke one either.

    Just my experience with fairing blocks.
     
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  3. alex88

    alex88 Member

    Location:
    Oakland
    Name:
    Alex
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    2003 Robalo R235
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    The HW is all you will need for salmon and tuna, the M is a better choice than the L for bottom fishing as it will be a smaller cone and better for showing what is straight below you where your bottom rig is actually going to be instead of showing you what is off to the sides of you with the wider L cone. I would go with the HW M combo. I have them in bronze on by glass boat and honestly think it’s the best combo for west coast needs.
     
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  4. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Drinking the Suzuki Kool-aid and liking it!

    Location:
    Camano Island
    Name:
    Steve
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    I would mount at least one transducer (Ss175hw would be my choice) as far aft as possible. At midship you will not be able to track your down rigger balls and the area behind them.
     
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  5. PSULion

    PSULion Member

    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    Name:
    Barry
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    I’ll have 6 burnewiin mounts to move downriggers around, so they may not always be far from the airmars. I also can point the PS30 at them since it’s angle is adjustable on the plotter.
     
  6. Walker Inc.

    Walker Inc. I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Name:
    Patrick Walker
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    33 ft. Coldwater Walkaround
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    I feel the fairing block is superior to the tilted element transducers. On my boat the block is just up from the keel, starboard side 2 feet aft of my helm seat. I can track bottom at any speed with detail and clarity. I never loose the the picture, it can be flat calm or super rough.

    As far as the sounder module, my opinion is that regardless of what the manufactures say, the external modules perform better than the internal sounder circuitry. I don’t know if it’s heat, or some sort of interference, or if they can’t cram the same amount of circuitry in the back of a 12” display. Not sure. Just seem to not be as good across all brands.

    I’m really excited for my “custom” SS275 to get here, I’m driving it with a CP 570, which will allow the L and the H to split screen, best part is it goes in the same fairing block my SS270 was in. Easy swap!
     
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  7. Salmonater

    Salmonater Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Tacoma,Wa US
    Name:
    Jeff Norwood
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    31' North River Walkaround, Salmonater
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    So I'm running Garmin 8612's(old style), GSD 26, SS175HW and SS175M tilted elements, and Panoptic Transom mount.

    I have the GSD26 because the older units didn't have the drive unit built in, I don't think you will need it unless you plan on installing something larger than I KW.

    I had Fairing Block transducers on my 2 previous boats, and the performance is as good with the tilted elements, the less there is hanging below the bottom of the boat, the better. There have been some problems withe the SS175L transducers ringing and causing some interference, but it doesn't sound like your looking at it.
    If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't install the Panoptix. If your only going to install 1 transducer, go with the HW.
     
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  8. Sky-Guy

    Sky-Guy Member

    Location:
    Everett/Mukilteo, Wa
    Name:
    Ryley
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    Cutwater 302
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    I would agree that you should pass on the Panoptix install. If you do decide to put one on, there is a shop in Portland that mounts the forward looking scan on a trim tab piston that will lower and raise the unit. I can find the shop name if interested. From what I have gathered they are not strong enough to function in a feasible way trolling in deep salt water.

    I went through this whole exercise last year and ended up deciding on a 175HW after talking to numerous people and charter captains.....through hull, no fairing.
     
  9. PSULion

    PSULion Member

    Location:
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    Barry
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    Can you elaborate? If I can see my gear at depths up to ~125-150' then it probably is worth it to me. The ability to see that a) your presentation is correct, b) you're not towing shakers and c) there are fish around seems like it would be worth the investment if it's useful even just some of the time. Figured even if only good at shallow depths, it would pay off for summer chinook/coho/sockeye.
     
  10. Sky-Guy

    Sky-Guy Member

    Location:
    Everett/Mukilteo, Wa
    Name:
    Ryley
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    From what I know each of the ducers are high frequency lower power, only ~150w. Thats not enough penetration power in deeper salt water to get a good readout of fish in front of or below your boat, if you opt for fwd view or live vue down, respectively.
    This was confirmed by a Garmin rep at the boat show when I discussed using in a salmon trolling application.

    These things were designed for Bass fishermen in a lake or backwater to see gamefish.

    Maybe @salmonator can chime in since he has one installed and has probably attempted to use it trolling.
     
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  11. Salmonater

    Salmonater Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    Name:
    Jeff Norwood
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    I installed mine mainly for see tuna off to the side when trolling and I feel I get a more accurate representation of whats down there withe the HW. I have not been able to see the value of it compared to the HW when trolling for salmon or Tuna.
     
  12. OMEGA

    OMEGA Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    MCS
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    The 175HW is without Q the best ducer for fishing up to 300ft depth and at trolling speed. In my opinion it is a outstanding complimentary transducer but not a stand alone do everything well ducer. It doesn't mark deep well or perform well at speed marking bottom. On your boat you will have some boundary layer to consider. I would do a SS260 1kw ducer on a fairing block and then do a low profile SS175HW further aft in clean water just off centerline.

    You will then have all the bases covered.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
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  13. Salmonater

    Salmonater Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    Name:
    Jeff Norwood
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    Theres no doubt that theres better transducers for deep work and running, but the HW with track bottom at 25knots to 1000' all the time on my boat and marks bottom well past that, I use that in tandem with the narrower cone angle Medium, for more detailed bottom contours.
     
  14. frozenherring

    frozenherring Frozenherring

    Location:
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    Mario
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    After hitting a huge sunfish And losing the stern mount 5 way Lowrance ducer, I went through the same seductive reasoning you are and ended up pulling the bout and cutting in a SS175HW.

    I love the thing, we didn’t deep water halibut fish but we caught all the other fish and could see what was going on everywhere just fine, I agree with @Salmonater

    The Osprey has a flat 7” pad all along the bottom so I just put it there about 6’6” north of the stern, still marks riggers etc.
     
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  15. PSULion

    PSULion Member

    Location:
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    Name:
    Barry
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    @Salmonater - how deep can you see your gear with the PS30? If I can see my gear spinning at sufficient depth then that’s worth it to me. Just want to see that I’m fishing. Would end up split screening the PS30 with the SS175HW at the rear helm to get a complete picture during the troll.

    If you’re tracking bottom at 1000’ with the SS175HW then I don’t see a need for a SS175M alongside. The Airmar specs say Max 500’ but I know that’s conservative because I can track a 700’ bottom all day with my SS164 while running.

    Think I’m going to start with the SS175HW and a PS30, then add the SS175M and GSD26 later if needed.
     
  16. Salmonater

    Salmonater Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    Name:
    Jeff Norwood
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    Depends on blowback and side currents, 50'-150'. The medium chirp will give you a more detailed/accurate look at the bottom because of the narrower cone. I usually run the HW and medium side by side, the different frequencies will give you different detail, depending on the fish your looking at.
     
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  17. OMEGA

    OMEGA Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    MCS
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    If you don't want a fairing block atleast consider also doing the SS164 to compliment the HW. It is a great ducer as you have experienced and very different than HW. With all the chirp hype and side view marketing I chose the proven 164 for my everything ducer on my current project. This was after talking to both Furuno and Airmar.

    20191102_130653.jpg
     
  18. PSULion

    PSULion Member

    Location:
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    Name:
    Barry
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    I figured the SS175HW was at least as ‘capable’ as the SS164 so didn’t consider a 164 as a companion. Figured the SS175M as a companion would compliment the 175HW and cover all the bases.

    Here’s a quick shot off my phone from my SS164 on a 942xs 9” rear display. Decent caterpillars at all working depths, figured the SS175HW would beat this, hence no need for a 164. am I wrong?
    9BBF4EFA-B338-4FCD-A9AD-FBB244A6C60F.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  19. Strike

    Strike Newbie

    Location:
    Olympia, WA USA
    Name:
    Jake
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    Arima
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    I may be wrong but I believe the ss164 has a narrow cone at 200 kHz and may be better than the B175hw for bottom fishing in deeper water.

    I know most guys that I have asked have recommended the b275 lhw or tm275 Lhw but I’m having a hard time understanding when the low would be best used in our waters. It seems like the combination of a B175hw and a B175M or B175H narrow would do better. Anyone using low chirp?
     
  20. OMEGA

    OMEGA Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    Name:
    MCS
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    In my opinion they are very different. I am a big fan of HW but at 300 ft you are seeing 134ft of bottom cross section. Very tough to see bottom detail when lookjng at that large an area.

    Look at elements used and cone angle in each ducer.

    Screenshot_20191102-140013_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
     
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