About The Blank Jumping Out of the Rod Lathe: A Cure

Woodhunter

Member
Jun 12, 2011
860
562
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat Name
Classic MAKO 22
About that blank coming out of the chuck: If the blank is not perfectly aligned with the centerline of the lathe, the blank wiggles in the chuck with each revolution and will work out of the chuck. Try to adjust the blank as level as possible: Getting the centerline of the blank, not the tapered outside, as true to the centerline of the lathe as possible. Not easy to do by eyeballing.

In the machine shop, this is easy as we have a precision lathe and precision dial indicators to “dial in” a shaft that is chucked in the metal lathe. Not so with a rod lathe. Besides, rod blanks are not true enough to warrant the use of a dial indicator. So calibrate your eyeballs!


Back to rod building:

A rubber band or several layers of masking tape on the butt end of the blank helps to keep the blank in the chuck. I use bicycle innertubes and cut wide sections to make wide rubber bands, better than the skinny ones you buy at the stationary area of your favorite store. Most guys already do this.

If your rod stands are the spring loaded type, the below modification will also help to keep the rod from jumping out of the stands. This will work on any similar wrapper, like the Pac Bay.

The roller stands for my Alps Wrapper have the spring loaded upper arm. The one that allows a rod to jump out when you leave the wrapper to itself when drying finish. Pretty annoying!

Original stand on the left, modified stand on the right. Note the “carriage bolt” securing the swing arm on the modified stand instead of the screw on the original.

PKCIXwL.jpg




You will need a supply of small carriage bolts, these are No. 10. You handy guys know what a carriage bolt is: A smooth rounded head with a short length of square shank just below the head, to grip the material the bolt protrudes through. Invented by wagon and carriage makers a long time ago, hence the name “carriage bolt”. Small No. 10 bolts are hard to find: But an endless source is the dog crate manufacturers. They are used to assemble dog crates and have a nice black plastic wing nut that looks as if it was made to fit the Alps Wrapper stands. I have a good stash from using crates for animal shipping, the new crates have extras included and I toss them in a container for future use.

You may also use standard screws and metal wing nuts, but I think the plastic wing nut looks better on the rod stand.

They look like this:

6qK2P0o.jpg


The one on the right has the square turned down to round, reason for this explained later.

p6pEpdQ.jpg



First step, drill out the swing arm hole using a 3/16” drill.


Tmfra6c.jpg



Deburr both sides of the hole. I am using a 82 degree countersink, anything similar will work.

X0FlyiH.jpg



Drill out the hole in the stand with a 3/16” drill. You may have to run the drill up and down a few times, we want the carriage bolt to swivel freely in this hole, as it is held in the swing arm with the Loc Tite.

Lyv1Euh.jpg


Back to those two carriage bolts: I have a metal lathe and turn down the square portion of the shank so it is a snug fit in the swing arm.

qX68PSu.jpg



I take the turned down carriage bolt and the drilled out swing arm and assemble with a dab of Loc Tite on the turned down portion of the shank, push the bolt into the swing arm and let it cure.


Below is the final product. The wing nut looks like it came from the factory. And we still have the spring to hold the swing arm out of the way when loading the rod blank.

Raise the arms, load the blank, flip the swing arms down, tighten the wing nut snugly.

I wrap a few layers of masking tape around the butt of the rod, this gives a “cushion” to absorb misalignment in the chuck. Combined with the modified rod stands, your blank will no longer jump out of the Alps wrapper.

GTyDwOl.jpg


Modified stand on the right.

myRSTGS.jpg




A link for the dog crate carriage bolts:


https://www.jefferspet.com/products/vari-kennel-repl-bolts?sku=DKV1&ne_ppc_id=237621180&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI15n6waGY3AIVkONkCh0EsgK0EAQYAiABEgKScfD_BwE


I have also posted this topic on other rod building forums.
 
Upvote 0

carnage007

Member
May 9, 2004
501
238
Encino
Name
nick
Boat Name
to poor
This would be perfect, just had a rod jump out and knock my beer off the table. If you have any interest in a small 3 or 5 screw set up I would buy one.
 
Upvote 0

Nirvana

But I don't want to edit this section
Aug 20, 2010
1,069
455
Sequim, WA USA
Name
Grant Darby
Boat Name
Which one?
Somebody told me about this just last week. Good to see you then, and thanks for the tip.
 
  • Like
Reactions: north coast
Upvote 0

Woodhunter

Member
Jun 12, 2011
860
562
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat Name
Classic MAKO 22
Somebody told me about this just last week. Good to see you then, and thanks for the tip.

Hi Grant,

My next trip to Utmost I will bring a stand with the mods to show you. And a copy of my writeup with the photos, it is a Word document.

What days are you at Utmost?

Interesting tidbit about other forums: I put the post up on one site and received negative feedback, so I deleted it. On another forum the place is about dead. Thinking about posting on Rodbuilding.org.

John in Port Angeles
 
Upvote 0

K. D.

Member
Apr 20, 2011
527
192
Bremerton, WA
Name
Kerry Hansen
Boat Name
RIVER SLED
John
Sorry you got negative feedback on another site. Unfortunately there are some who don't acknowledge the effort and caring it takes for someone to go on a site to tell how they solved a problem.
I don't have the same wrapper you have, so am not dealing with the spring loaded standoffs. I have an old Custom Power Wrapper and here is how I solved my problem many years ago. First for the Butt of a rod I have a grocery bag full of news paper bundle rubber bands. I wrap one of these on the butt cap which makes a nice springy knob that I put in the chuck. For multi piece rods I have a bunch of scrap blank mandrels that I either put this rubber band on the end OR I use old masking tape and make a quite thick band on the butt of the mandrel. When clamped down in the chuck it will deform the band into a triangle shape which is still springy. I then slide the rod section on the mandrel for wrapping the guides. Never had it jump out of the chuck by either of these methods.
Kerry
 
Upvote 0

Woodhunter

Member
Jun 12, 2011
860
562
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat Name
Classic MAKO 22
Thanks Kerry.

No big deal to me about the negative feedback, but I think it was uncalled for.

Besides, a better group of rod builders are here on Bloody Decks!! I have learned a lot here from gents like you and others, especially the 'ol Salty Dog.

I started building rods back in the 1970's when rod lathes were few and far between. Almost bought a Clemens but decided to see if I could make one. A few photos below of the beast, it served me well but sadly I sold it when I had to head for the hills during my divorce in 1994. I now have an ALPS but have plans and parts for making a heavy duty lathe powered by a 3/4 hp DC motor.

Below, photos of the one I built:

12 foot bed length as I started out making Salmon Mooching rods that used one piece blanks 9-1/2 feet long. Lamiglas MB1143F blanks, in the days before composites. I would drive to Woodland and buy 20 at a time. I still have 3 rods built on this blank.

AiZYWz1.jpg


KKfRam7.jpg


3hziEek.jpg


This "rest" was real handy when weaving butt wraps: It was angled, the rod side of the support on the rod centerline, operator side lower.

nGROAXo.jpg


Wow, that was a long time ago! Original photos were Kodachrome slides, I had digital copies made a few years ago. Below photo even has the old "Rodcrafters" decal on the wall:

HATwvVc.jpg


I have a set of vintage Clemens roller stands that I will use on the heavy duty lathe:

HwMHXEx.jpg


Some of the parts for the heavy duty lathe:

It will have a hollow spindle with a 1-1/2" bore to allow a blank to extend through the spindle Handy for those long 1 piece surf rod blanks. I will modify the 3 jaw chuck shown by boring it out to 1-1/2".

jIeuwWJ.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Woodhunter

Member
Jun 12, 2011
860
562
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat Name
Classic MAKO 22
That is going to be a beast of a machine and I think your fix was a perfect solution to a problem that most of us have faced.


Yea it will be a nice winter project. My old 1970's machine had a 1/4 hp DC variable speed motor with 4:1 reduction timing belt drive. Both foot control and hand control up on the lathe.

The future machine will have lots of hp for grip shaping. 3/4 hp DC motor, controlled as the 1970's machine. Also a 4:1 ratio timing belt drive.

I have a machine shop in the back yard with three metal lathes and two milling machines, so I have the capabilities of machining the parts. The large spindle bores of the metal lathes have spoiled me, I have always wanted a rod lathe with a large spindle bore as I like to use big one piece blanks.

The motors on today's wrapping lathes seem to be a "drying motor", not a lot of power for serious grip work. But at the price we pay for them, they do a good job.
 
Upvote 0

Woodhunter

Member
Jun 12, 2011
860
562
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat Name
Classic MAKO 22
Took me several years to regain financial stability but things are good now.

Divorces suck, it should be as hard to get married as it is to finalize a divorce!!!

PS still single, been a bachelor since 1994.

A portion of the present shop, a fun place to spend those winter days working on projects:

iT1Ctb1.jpg


iY6Gdrp.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Woodhunter

Member
Jun 12, 2011
860
562
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat Name
Classic MAKO 22
John

Great looking shop. We share similar history, but I didn't fare as bad as you. Also we both know Grant.
Kerry

Yep I drop by Utmost once a week. Bought a lot of blanks from Mick over the years. Still miss Jim Batson, he was a good friend and always ready to help me on guide selection and general rod building questions. His stories were true entertainment!
 
Upvote 0