85 Outrage Rehab

acefuture

@acecraftco
Apr 3, 2019
666
632
Costa Mesa, CA
Name
Ace
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Always changing
Finally got the deck re-cored. This was a big ass project. I knew it would be but damn it was a big one. It wasn’t cheap either. Marine ply is $157 a sheet right now, and I took about 2.5 gallons of epoxy. After paint, this deck re core job will have cost around $1000. I figured it would be fine to go the old school way and just roll out the glass. Definitely should have vacuum bagged like other had suggested. Would have saved a lot of time and energy

A layer of 1708 down and the next core layer down with everything heavy I could find.

C41C46FF-1503-476A-8A30-D5137872E77E.jpeg


It laid up really well and had a great bond

B852B0C2-93BC-40ED-B8BC-5C880ACBABA2.jpeg


Taped off the access holes that needed some more epoxy built up and poured in more

634CFCC3-5387-446F-B86F-B922821DD890.jpeg


I ground down the edges of the wood and pulled thickened epoxy down the edges so the next layer of glass would lay nicely

629CFB41-AC6D-4B94-BCE4-58A9E181DAEF.jpeg


Next layer of 1708 rolled out

EA1F4E7C-1448-477F-9ACE-6870A06403E2.jpeg


Ground off all the high spots

669DB55C-D1B4-480D-B9EE-B30D138C2686.jpeg


Also flipped it over and filled all the old holes. Time to start sanding and prep the top for paint

CEFD17BE-FF18-4F1A-9DEB-95D337CF11D6.jpeg
 
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karlow

Twins 2017
Apr 29, 2004
1,899
817
64
Duarte/Covina
Name
karl
Boat
20' skippy Topless /17' whaler Wet Ride (sold) /18' Outrage
Almost,
I don't see any reinforcements for the tee top yet.
My metal is just showing up on Monday/
 
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acefuture

@acecraftco
Apr 3, 2019
666
632
Costa Mesa, CA
Name
Ace
Boat
Always changing
Almost,
I don't see any reinforcements for the tee top yet.
My metal is just showing up on Monday/
No tee top going on this boat, I decided I’m building a small doghouse. Gotta figure out how to navigate it but I’ll figure it out after I wrap this up
 
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URN

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  • Feb 20, 2018
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    Whaler 25
    A doghouse would be sweet so you can still walk around the whole boat but still get out of the weather. Access to the helm and seating area is usually the tough part to figure out on these boats. This Frontier had fold down seats so the passenger could enter the cabin then the driver could enter. It was kinda wonky so I made the cabin bigger with a center door and now have bench seats on port and stbd side. Still some seat tweaking to do but we'll see there.

    Your deck lid looks like it came out nice. I think the only way vacuum bagging these works is if you have something very flat to vacuum against. I used the flattest part of a concrete floor I could find and it turned out OK. The plus side is how much force vacuum applies to a large surface area. For example: 4'x8' sheet of ply, pull vacuum on that and assume 13psi is pulled. That's 48" x 96" x 13lbs/in^2 and the in^2 cancels out leaving force in pounds. That's almost 60,000 lbs of force squeezing that together. It does take a lot of prep work and when the ply is saturated enough it probably doesnt matter in the end product. If this were aerospace then vacuum bagging is about the only way.
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
    666
    632
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Name
    Ace
    Boat
    Always changing
    A doghouse would be sweet so you can still walk around the whole boat but still get out of the weather. Access to the helm and seating area is usually the tough part to figure out on these boats. This Frontier had fold down seats so the passenger could enter the cabin then the driver could enter. It was kinda wonky so I made the cabin bigger with a center door and now have bench seats on port and stbd side. Still some seat tweaking to do but we'll see there.

    Your deck lid looks like it came out nice. I think the only way vacuum bagging these works is if you have something very flat to vacuum against. I used the flattest part of a concrete floor I could find and it turned out OK. The plus side is how much force vacuum applies to a large surface area. For example: 4'x8' sheet of ply, pull vacuum on that and assume 13psi is pulled. That's 48" x 96" x 13lbs/in^2 and the in^2 cancels out leaving force in pounds. That's almost 60,000 lbs of force squeezing that together. It does take a lot of prep work and when the ply is saturated enough it probably doesnt matter in the end product. If this were aerospace then vacuum bagging is about the only way.
    Yea figuring out how i'm going to go about it now. In the end it might just be a glass over ply console/top more so than an actual doghouse. So I eliminate the aluminum or stainless tubing and just make a top out of glass and tie it to the console. Will probably go poly with this project too because Epoxy is hard to stomach expensive at the moment.
     
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    URN

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  • Feb 20, 2018
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    Whaler 25
    I did get a quote for 3/8" PVC Foam sheets from a company in Salt Lake City that has treated me well. Technology Marketing Inc. They focus on aerospace but might have some Rohacell or similar sheeting available. At one time I got a quote for.375" x 30" x 90" sheets of PVC foam board for about $27/sheet. I don't know if that is still available but worth a call. If done right the doghouses could be built quite light but very strong. Tooling up is the costly part.

    If I had my own shop the first major piece of tooling I would build would be a layout table large enough to vacuum bag flat panels on. I built one of these tables at university for the lab I worked in and it was an all metal table that had a self-leveling epoxy poured over the top to make it perfectly flat and level. That was polished and waxed and we were able to pull some very flat parts off of it. Oh the good ol days when I didn't care how much stuff cost because it wasn't my money!!!
     
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    karlow

    Twins 2017
    Apr 29, 2004
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    The house sounds like a great idea. It seems that it's just not enough boat for it. I thought of building one that was the same width as the console, but you would end up with a house big enough of one person. If you make it wider, it will take up so much space it would be hard to get around it, or it would still be too small to fit two people side by side. I was thinking in terms of an open side structure. It would be more of a front and top than an actual house. Whaler makes some like that now. You will also have to solve the windshield problem. My thought was to find a suitable van or truck side window to use. I would want to avoid the need for custom windows glass, no plastic!
    This is requires because of the need for a windshield wiper. All glass over foam construction with epoxy. The last time I needed epoxy, you could pick it up online for under $100 a gal. All this and it might not be so great in the typical cross wind. it might need some soft side doors to make it more cozy for travel that roll up and out of the way.

    Out House small.jpg
     
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    karlow

    Twins 2017
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    If you zoom in. it appears that that house is welded aluminum, but you could make one out if glass.
     
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    karlow

    Twins 2017
    Apr 29, 2004
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    karl
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    If you are willing to give up walk around access you can build something like this one.
    This is a Parker.
    1621972846522.png
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
    666
    632
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Name
    Ace
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    Always changing
    I did get a quote for 3/8" PVC Foam sheets from a company in Salt Lake City that has treated me well. Technology Marketing Inc. They focus on aerospace but might have some Rohacell or similar sheeting available. At one time I got a quote for.375" x 30" x 90" sheets of PVC foam board for about $27/sheet. I don't know if that is still available but worth a call. If done right the doghouses could be built quite light but very strong. Tooling up is the costly part.

    If I had my own shop the first major piece of tooling I would build would be a layout table large enough to vacuum bag flat panels on. I built one of these tables at university for the lab I worked in and it was an all metal table that had a self-leveling epoxy poured over the top to make it perfectly flat and level. That was polished and waxed and we were able to pull some very flat parts off of it. Oh the good ol days when I didn't care how much stuff cost because it wasn't my money!!!
    Just called them, they quoted me $280 a sheet for their Rohacell, thats out of the question. I'm going to look into PVC foam sheets, maybe nidacore or a similar honey comb. My only worry is I would need like 3 of 4 layers each side to really get the rigidity and thats a lot of money in epoxy haha.
    The house sounds like a great idea. It seems that it's just not enough boat for it. I thought of building one that was the same width as the console, but you would end up with a house big enough of one person. If you make it wider, it will take up so much space it would be hard to get around it, or it would still be too small to fit two people side by side. I was thinking in terms of an open side structure. It would be more of a front and top than an actual house. Whaler makes some like that now. You will also have to solve the windshield problem. My thought was to find a suitable van or truck side window to use. I would want to avoid the need for custom windows glass, no plastic!
    This is requires because of the need for a windshield wiper. All glass over foam construction with epoxy. The last time I needed epoxy, you could pick it up online for under $100 a gal. All this and it might not be so great in the typical cross wind. it might need some soft side doors to make it more cozy for travel that roll up and out of the way.
    That house is very similar to what I want to do, but I don't want forward leaning windows, and the side panels will be just a hair wider than the console. It'll be a thin and sleek design. Similar to this, but less rear rake and smaller. It will more so be just a side extension for the top so I don't have to get a tee top than it will be an actual "house"
     
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    URN

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  • Feb 20, 2018
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    Whaler 25
    Just called them, they quoted me $280 a sheet for their Rohacell, thats out of the question. I'm going to look into PVC foam sheets, maybe nidacore or a similar honey comb. My only worry is I would need like 3 of 4 layers each side to really get the rigidity and thats a lot of money in epoxy haha.

    That house is very similar to what I want to do, but I don't want forward leaning windows, and the side panels will be just a hair wider than the console. It'll be a thin and sleek design. Similar to this, but less rear rake and smaller. It will more so be just a side extension for the top so I don't have to get a tee top than it will be an actual "house"
    Rohacell is an aerospace product so itll be spendy. They had some off brand PVC foam board that should be cheaper. It was last year when I called for it and they could be out.

    One thing that could work is using melamine board to create the mold of the house you're mocking up. Wax and PVA it up and go solid glass with vinylester or polyester. Building a cavity mold like this is tough because its hard to visualize the negative turning into the positive when the part is pulled from the mold.

    Another option is to use urethane foam and create a mockup of what you want the house to look like. This dude builds some crazy awesome stuff but the mold creation process can apply to boats too:


    You can mockup the doghouse out of wood. Pour urethane foam to coat it and start sanding out the shape you want.

    Use 3M77 spray adhesive to make tape stick to the foamy surface, then glass over that. Resins won't stick to the tape much so the house can be pulled from the temporary mold. Then its off to fairing and filling. You can use cheaper poly or vinyl resins for the main structure, then mix your own micro balloon epoxy filler for fairing. Prepare for lots of work and about 4X the initial cost assumed.
     
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    karlow

    Twins 2017
    Apr 29, 2004
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    20' skippy Topless /17' whaler Wet Ride (sold) /18' Outrage
    I like the forward windows, it gives u more space in there for the electronics and stuff.
    As for making mold, just use PE film for the release.
    Back in the day, I built a swim step and bait tank out of polyurethane foam sheet and glass. The foam is great to work with. Once wrapped it's light, rigid, and strong as hell.
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
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    Not a ton of progress lately with work being extremely busy. But got the fuel tank strapped down with new 1/4" aluminum straps, new rubber underneath them, and 3" SS bolts that were bolted down with filled epoxy and 5200. This thing is rock solid. I also shoved rubber stops down the sides of the tank so there's no way for it to slide around in the cavity.

    Also ran new fuel lines an fittings. Going to hook up the breather vent this afternoon and put the deck back in it.

    IMG_7716.JPG


    Painted the deck the same as I did the hull. 3 coats of 545 primer and 2 coats of topcoat. Unfortunately with the paint being such a high sheen it really shows all the imperfections of the deck from the old rigging holes from the console, seat pedestals, and misc other rigging. They are all filled with epoxy now, but really stick out. Oh well, the majority of them will be covered with the new console and bait tank/leaning post. Time to buckle it back in.

    IMG_7717.JPG

    IMG_7718.JPG
     
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    karlow

    Twins 2017
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    Progress made! You can always go over the deck with anti-slip paint. It should cover some of the defects. Have you checked to see if the deck clears the fuel inlet? That is where I ran into problems. The hose looks a bit high to me. See below, there was very little space between the inlet and the tank. It looks to be less that 1/2" in this pic
    1623182254088.png


    This new tank looks like there maybe an inch of space. It is about 1/2" to 3/4" too tall.

    1623182403069.png
    Check if now before it's crying time!
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
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    Costa Mesa, CA
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    Ace
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    Progress made! You can always go over the deck with anti-slip paint. It should cover some of the defects. Have you checked to see if the deck clears the fuel inlet? That is where I ran into problems. The hose looks a bit high to me. See below, there was very little space between the inlet and the tank. It looks to be less that 1/2" in this pic


    Check if now before it's crying time!
    Yep! it was the first thing I checked when I finished the deck. I actually cut out reliefs for the fuel inlet, breather, and sender just incase and then glassed it. So they all clear fine and have glassed in structure
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
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    Ace
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    Always changing
    Rest of the plumbing laid in place as well as the hydraulic steering lines, control cables, transducer, and some wiring

    B65ED992-289C-4D93-B6BB-E869F93B57E4.jpeg


    Put the deck back in. Not gonna bolt it down til I have all the rigging in place, and know where to cut holes for the bait tank plumbing. Now to find a bait tank….

    977C7146-C34E-4D2E-95E5-31457F5408BF.jpeg
     
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    karlow

    Twins 2017
    Apr 29, 2004
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    You will need a self priming pump, like a water puppy for that to work.
     
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    neversink2

    Here fishy fishy fishy...
    Oct 9, 2004
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    Chris
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    You can get a negative for the nonskid from Gibco and repair it.
    They’ll send you a free sample for fit check. I’ve done repairs just using the sample with mold release sprayed on it. You can get multiple repairs this way. They will also send you a repair guide. It’s a bit time consuming but worth it if you’re anal enough like me.

     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
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    Costa Mesa, CA
    Name
    Ace
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    Always changing
    You can get a negative for the nonskid from Gibco and repair it.
    They’ll send you a free sample for fit check. I’ve done repairs just using the sample with mold release sprayed on it. You can get multiple repairs this way. They will also send you a repair guide. It’s a bit time consuming but worth it if you’re anal enough like me.

    Appreciate it. I’m gonna get everything bolted up and see how much is messed up. If not much I’ll leave it, if there’s quite a bit I’ll put some sea deck on it
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
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    Started getting cracking on the console. I really wanted to do this in divinycell or nida core, but for the life of me couldn't find it for under $200 a sheet so I opted for ply wood. Actually ended up getting a killer deal on 1/2 baltic from Strata in Santa Ana.

    I started by taking a million measurements, looking at references (specifically @tranandya's edgewater doghouse, and the pacific pilothouses), and sketching ideas on a sheet. Finally got what I thought would be the perfect shape. One thing I love about the outrage, and I think partially why they are so popular are the lines of the lifting strakes and chines. Really gives the hull a fluid look and I really wanted to capture that "design language" in the console. I didn't want a 3D look to the console though. Wanted to keep it simple with a bit of flare. I think I captured it when I drew out the measurements

    IMG_7777.JPG


    I used a 3" hole saw to get the radius in the windows. Ended up with a 5 degree kick back for the bottom half, and 10 degree kick back for the top half. After hours of measuring, I figured 34 degrees (I know, weird) was the perfect slope for the helm, so I integrated that in the outer walls as well. It's basically the same size as the original console, with a section for my display and gauges, and a top on it.

    IMG_7778.JPG


    Once I cut out the first one, I needed to make sure it felt right. Had my neighbor hold it up while I checked it out. I opted for 78" tall which I felt was tall enough for anyone to be under it, but not too tall that it looked awkward. Looked pretty damn right, so I cut out the rest.

    IMG_7780.JPG


    Routed all the edges before bolting it together.

    IMG_7783.JPG


    Played with a few different width measurements and decided that 32" was just about right. 2" narrower than the original console for more walking room, but still hits the main bolting locations necessary

    IMG_7784.JPG


    Cut out the front window and roof. Opted for a 4" radius on both front and back of the top to give it some flare, as well as a little brow instead of flush. The overall length of the roof is 4 foot.

    IMG_7785.JPG


    Overall really fits the boat nicely I think. Plenty of walking room, not too bulky, but offers a good bit of shade and a place to put some rod holders and potentially a radar dome.

    IMG_7786.JPG

    IMG_7787.JPG


    Started cutting out the main console. This took me longer than I initially thought. But after getting angles and sizing correct I think it hits the mark. Plenty of room for electronics, as well as about 15 cup holders up top. It's 44" tall to the top, 36" tall to the top of the helm, and will be 26-28" deep. Plenty of room for 27 series batteries, or even 31s if I decide to go that route.

    IMG_7788.JPG


    Today I'll cut out the access hatch for the front, and mount it, then start pulling some fillets so I can pull out screws and route the outside edges.
     
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    acefuture

    @acecraftco
    Apr 3, 2019
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    Ace
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    Always changing
    Was going to do a different style toe kick, but I’m not 100% sure where this thing is going to land yet so opted to just emulate the original console instead.

    2C3A5261-88B3-4775-AA16-DA6B5B94C6C5.jpeg


    Started pulling fillets using kitty hair. Not pretty yet but the corners have a nice radius to them now. I’ll sand em down and lay some glass inside before pulling the screws

    1D4E4AEE-4D0A-4138-BFFA-2878E0A0D942.jpeg
     
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