63 foot sport fisher Invicta charter goes down

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fishstomp

Picaroon
Aug 11, 2008
1,146
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ɐsn ɐɔ 'pןǝıɟsɹǝʞɐq
Name
Doug
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18' Seaswirl
:cool:

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Otis2527

Member
Feb 23, 2014
346
255
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Matt
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Excel
If people are honest, you could pick with 100% accuracy which operations are run like a shit show and which are top notch. Fortunately everyone is safe- it could have been much worse.


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fishkilr

I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
Aug 27, 2012
3,662
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long beach,ca.u.s.a.
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alby
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None
It isn't just the drinking, though that was plenty bad. There were serious problems with the abandon ship knowledge, the inability to launch the life raft and the usability of the life jackets. Maybe the boats aren't doing their required drills? Do you think maybe the landings have some duty to ensure that the boats they are chartering are seaworthy, including all safety gear and crew preparedness in an emergency?

It adds insult to injury when after taking on water the second captain is worthless because he had been partying to the point that would kill most men my age. But there was plenty of time to ensure the passengers safety after the impact. The vessel was pulled a few hundred yards away initially while the mains were operational but at that point no effort was made to get the passengers accounted for, or in life jackets or to launch the life rafts. The crew is in disarray. The first captain was presumably attempting to save the vessel but once it was DIW and listing heavily he was still worthless in terms of caring for the passengers. Richard Allen the lawyer/agent/owner of the vessel, depending on what he calls himself at the time, wasn't caring for the passengers. One of the deckhands was even drinking a beer. It wasn't until almost an hour later with the vessel again drifting against the island that the crew focused on the life rafts and abandoning ship. Until then the passengers were left to fend for themselves and figure out how to launch the life raft by reading the instructions on deck- the same way they had to learn how and when to get life jackets on, most of which were in a tangled mess and few had operable lights. (New moon/pitch black.). One of the deckhands then abruptly grabbed the 12 man life raft away from the passengers cuts it free from the vessel and tosses it overboard with no concept for how they would keep it close to the vessel. Of course the crewman walked away and didn't deal with that so the passengers had to retrieve it with a gaff after climbing overboard on the swim step. The passengers themselves then manually inflated it by reading the instructions without any crew assistance even though by now the boat is dead in the water, listing heavily with below decks entirely flooded, no lights, etc., - clearly a vessel that is going down and needing to be abandoned. By the time the passengers finally inflated the life rafts the vessel had drifted back up against the island leaving the rafts sandwiched between the island face and the vessel. The situation then was so critical the crew ordered the passengers to board the life rafts anyway. They had waited so long that the vessel was about to roll or strike the rocks again so they started ordering passengers to just jump overboard when it was taking too long to board them in the rafts. THEY HAD AS MUCH AS AN HOUR!

Basic seamanship requires that the passengers be accounted for and their safety cared for during a potential abandon ship crisis. A member of the crew, well drilled and prepared, should have been assigned to the life rafts and ensured that they were manually deployed and the passengers were safely and timely boarded on the other side of the vessel so they could drift free of the wreckage and the island face. If not for the Sweet Marie unfucking what had been done by itself risking its vessel to pull the lifeboat away from the island, these passengers would have been crushed and in the water or worse.

Basically there was no leadership in crisis and the passengers were left to fend for themselves adding insult to injury. The only functional master, the first captain, was a catatonic mess the entire time mumbling about how he gave the wheel to the second captain at 2:30. It's one thing to have your life threatened by the arrogance of a man drinking himself into a stupor. It's another thing to spend an hour like this after it happened. This is the seamanship of a 100 ton Master? This is the net sum of man overboard and abandon ship drills conducted at least every 90 days?

This story will be told and it won't be flattering to anyone associated with this vessel. The landings operate as though they have a liability pass but they are a business with 100% charter control of these vessels and they have a duty of reasonable care like any other business - in this case to ensure that the vessels they are chartering are seaworthy which minimally requires that they are prepared for a catastrophe when, not if it happens.
Holy fuck!!!!!
 
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yellowklr

My Best Catch!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 22, 2003
3,784
1,709
48
San Diego,Ca
Name
Derek
Boat
complicated
Spent 8 years of my life working down at the landings and knowing what I knew then half the boats there I wouldn't fish at that time.......Between drugs,Booze and just plain irresponsibility.

Really surprised there aren't more accidents
 
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sealskinner

Retired Pimp
  • Apr 24, 2005
    14,330
    9,342
    in the Hood
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    Mike
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    Franks ho
    I think on trips more than 3 days. That drills should be done with passengers. So everybody isn't running around not sure of procedure.
     
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    Carl

    Bridesmaid,,,,,,,Again
  • Nov 29, 2004
    20,654
    4,474
    54
    San Diego
    Name
    Carl
    Boat
    everyone elses
    I think on trips more than 3 days. That drills should be do with passengers. So everybody isn't running around not sure of procedure.
    Good idea.... I could identify That Guy before I left the harbor and plan my fishing strategy accordingly....avoid that initial megatangle when im naive....
     
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    kevina

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Sep 10, 2006
    2,755
    2,211
    94
    redondo beach
    Name
    kev
    Boat
    25' aqua sport
    K enough bs, I'm looking for information from anyone interested in making sure something like this can never happen again.

    1. Richard Allen - was Mr. Allen a licensed master?

    2. Ryan McNichol - does anyone know if Mr. McNichol has a history of drug or alcohol problems?

    3. Did this vessel or any other at H&M have a history of drug or alcohol abuse?

    4. These vessels for hire are required to conduct periodic checks of all safety gear as well as man overboard and abandon ship drills. They are also required to maintain written logs of these activities for USCG inspection on demand. Does anyone have knowledge as to whether it is common practice for these drills not to be conducted or for these logs to be forged?

    5. There are rumors that this vessel's auto pilot was down. Anyone know whether this is accurate?

    6. This master allegedly turned off the radar, gps, sounder and alarms. Is this common practice?

    7. I am aware of the Conquest but can you guys start listing all the times these vessels have hit the islands due to neglect of the master including being asleep at the wheel.

    Any person with information related to the safety record of this vessel or this landing please PM me and we'll switch to a secure channel. Deckhands, captains, managers, charter agents, passengers - Firsthand knowledge or information leading to firsthand knowledge is all worthwhile. If you knew or heard something you think might be worthwhile use a PM. Don't hold back now is the time for this industry to reform.

    Boats run by professional captains hitting islands is inexcusable.

    Larry
    By any off chance are you an attorney.
     
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    kevina

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Sep 10, 2006
    2,755
    2,211
    94
    redondo beach
    Name
    kev
    Boat
    25' aqua sport
    Larry.... I'm with your thinking and thought, but truth be known, as long as these boats and crews keep the hours they do during a full blown busy season, as much as I hate to say this, these issues of a collision while a boat is on Auto Pilot and just one man on watch....... well, they will continue to happen on occasion.

    Maybe we can lessen them a whole bunch, but to completely make them disappear is highly unlikely.

    Here is my though on the subject though.

    1. 2 man watches whenever possible!!
    2. Have safety alarms set and put the captain in charge of making sure they are used always during night time travel.
    3. Have ring range safety alarm set to go off one mile or more from and landmark.
    4. Any passengers that even remotely think the captain or any crew is under the influence should report it and inform others right away. I suppose some may say this could cause a stir, but this is serious shit we are talking about..... the lives of many people in someones hands while they are asleep, and anyone (crew, capt or whomever), that would have an issue with this would be pretty suspect right off the bat.

    Nobody who knows they stay clean will ever have an issue with this, because there is no reason too.

    Like I said earlier, unfortunately this sort of thing happens way more often then some would like to think, only more times than not, the person who has dozed off finally wakes up before anything bad has happened. Almost every year or so, there seems to be a report of a large vessel hitting land due to someone falling asleep at the wheel.

    One last thing I would like to add to maybe help other guys who have large yachts and at times due night watches. To the owners and captains, I would say this......

    When I would do trips down to Cabo with my buddy who at the time was captain on this very boat that sank, my buddy would always tell every single one of us some very important things. One being, NEVER EVER go on the back deck while on your watch by yourself and to the rail to piss or whatever. He would tell us, if you have to piss or puke, then open the back salon door and piss right on the deck, or puke to for that matter..... it will all wash down and out the scuppers come morning.

    Second thing he would make clear to us, was that if any of us felt tired to the point that they just felt they could not stay awake, then NEVER ever be afraid to come wake him up. He made sure we all knew he was very serious about this, and he also made sure we understood that should we do so, there was no ill will or hard feelings (which I think is the important part here!). The guy that fears getting sleepy because of what his captain will do to him is the one you have to worry about, because these guys will try to fight the fatigue for fear of being harshly reprimanded, and eventually the fatigue will likely win and they will doze off for a spell.

    Here was the coolest thing that my buddy did as captain. He had an area that he would sleep that was right up in the pilothouse area, and right behind where the guys on watch were. He would sleep right there, and let me tell you, he would hear in his sleep the slightest changes in the noise of the engine or anything else, and we would be up in a flash.

    Plus whoever was on watch always knew he was right behind them sleeping, and they knew that should they doze off he might just catch them. He was cool about a guy coming to him and needing rest, but it was not cool at all to doze off.



    Gotta run..... hope just a little might help.

    The unknown fisherman:p:
    I knew someone who worked on overnight boats during the summer months in san diego back when he was in high school, he didn't drink, smoke or use drugs. He worked on a boat with no second and only two deckhands including himself. It was a well known 65' sport boat that was completely booked for the summer.The boat was basically in the slip enough time to unload and load then out again. After getting bait the watches(driving the boat) would be divided into 3 groups 1st, 2nd and 3rd, the last shift would go untill day light. After working 17 straight days with appx 3.5 to 5 hours of sleep everyday, the night of his 18th day, he had first watch and shortly fell asleep at the wheel and luckily enough woke up just before day break at the wheel. LUCKILY nothing happened to the passengers or anyone else. The owner said to him don't ever fall asleep again at the wheel, That was it. When the boat got in, he quit thanking the higher power nothing bad happened, and decided to go back to college. He still thinks about all the boats out on the water at night, when he is on his own boat, Not knowing if the other boat close to him is paying attention or awake at the wheel.
     
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    kevina

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Sep 10, 2006
    2,755
    2,211
    94
    redondo beach
    Name
    kev
    Boat
    25' aqua sport
    IMO, 6 hour watches are way too long, at least not if you don't have really seasoned crew. At least for the first time, if I were setting up the schedule, the most I would go is 4 hours. (Then next trip maybe decide to lengthen or bring a 4th guy.) Also, you don't really need two guys on the helm unless they would otherwise be sleeping -- 1 guy up and two milling around is enough. That way, if you cover from 10:30 pm to 6 am, each guy can do a total of 5 hours in two 2-1/2 hour shifts:

    On Off Guy 1 Guy 2 Guy 3
    22:30 23:45 1:15 1:15
    23:45 1:00 1:15 1:15
    1:00 2:15 1:15 1:15
    2:15 3:30 1:15 1:15
    3:30 4:45 1:15 1:15
    4:45 6:00 1:15 1:15

    The down side is that no one gets to sleep for more than an hour at a time, but that hour is enough to refresh. With only three guys, having 2 on at all times necessarily limits the amount of sleep anyone is going to get.

    ps -- sorry I can't get my chart to line up -- it looks fine in edit mode, but all of my spaces are ignored when I post. Maybe this is a little better?

    On Off Guy 1 Guy 2 Guy 3
    22:00 23:15 1:15 1:15 0:00
    23:15 0:30 0:00 1:15 1:15
    0:30 1:45 1:15 0:00 1:15
    1:45 3:00 1:15 1:15 0:00
    3:00 4:15 0:00 1:15 1:15
    4:15 5:30 1:15 0:00 1:15
    Total: 5:00 5:00 5:00
    Too confusing, too many people, too many watches, Why not just leave at 500am and kick it up, to be at the island before dark. then everyone sleeps at night. Also traveling at night their are some things that a radar will not pick up, which could be a big problem. Log's, kelp patties with rope, A TUG DOING A LONG TOW, ETC
     
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    kevina

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Sep 10, 2006
    2,755
    2,211
    94
    redondo beach
    Name
    kev
    Boat
    25' aqua sport
    Of course. Someone knows if this is true. If so PM me.

    And it is very unlikely this guy took the wheel at 2:30am sober with a 4:30 impact 12 miles and 180 degrees off course.
    180 degrees off course??? That would put him back at the dock.
     
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    RenoG

    Mission Bay - Campland 25' Larson Cabin Boat
    Sep 2, 2016
    112
    76
    43
    Poway, CA
    www.renog.info
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    Reno G
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    Sea Sea Rider
    I hate to barge in on the speculation war; but even just by myself and my boat, it's hard to fall asleep while driving a boat because we know falling asleep and letting the boat drive itself ends with a parade of lights type "accident" or slamming into the shore and looking like an idiot on the rocks.

    Unfortunately we won't know his side of the story so we can make up facts like how dumb the guy was 180 degrees off course, how drugged up and drunk he was, or how many times he repeated 3rd grade. The truth is he was just some kid who shouldn't have been put in charge of driving 25 people around with a 65 foot boat in the middle of the night.

    It takes more than sleep deprivation or texting to hit the Coronados with a 65 footer; lack of experience is definitely to blame. I wonder what the crew was doing; at 2 am it would be criminal to only have one guy on watch and piloting in the dark.

    Airline pilots are known for having drinks before and during a flight; yet they don't plunge people into the water from it. It's their experience that counts; and having two other guys to smack them in the head to wake up when attention is critical.

    People say sport boats run like surf shops rotating minimum wage crew for jobs nobody wants; but I do think it fair and reasonable to sue the ownership of the operation so he can go into a field where lives won't be lost.... like running an airline. please let me know the name so I can ride safely with the drunk that flew B2's in WWII.
     
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    MYNomad

    Heading South
    Dec 12, 2007
    4,140
    4,696
    Pacific Northwest / West Coast Mexico
    Name
    Rick
    Boat
    Yes
    Too confusing, too many people, too many watches, Why not just leave at 500am and kick it up, to be at the island before dark. then everyone sleeps at night. Also traveling at night their are some things that a radar will not pick up, which could be a big problem. Log's, kelp patties with rope, A TUG DOING A LONG TOW, ETC

    If a three-man staggered watch schedule is too confusing, I bet coming upon an island in the middle of the night would be utterly baffling.

    I do agree that it is best to avoid night travel if possible, but you can't arrive 60 nm offshore at grey light without night travel. As far as hitting stuff at night, a good radar will pick up both the tug and its tow, but that is where knowledge of nav lights comes into play -- it is actually easier to see at night. And semi-submerged obstacles are as easily missed during the day. At least at night you are likely to be going slow. Moreover, other technologies exist to detect those as well: FLIR, scanning sonar.
     
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    bparker1225

    Ocean Addiction
    Sep 27, 2004
    1,917
    1,439
    Leucadia/Los Zacatitos
    Name
    Bill Parker
    Boat
    21' 6" Cabo-Cabo Bill
    RenoG:
    "Airline pilots are known for having drinks before and during a flight; yet they don't plunge people into the water from it. It's their experience that counts; and having two other guys to smack them in the head to wake up when attention is critical. "

    Agree I am a neurosurgeon, I always have a shot before and during my surgeries. :cheers:
     
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    kevina

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Sep 10, 2006
    2,755
    2,211
    94
    redondo beach
    Name
    kev
    Boat
    25' aqua sport
    If a three-man staggered watch schedule is too confusing, I bet coming upon an island in the middle of the night would be utterly baffling.

    I do agree that it is best to avoid night travel if possible, but you can't arrive 60 nm offshore at grey light without night travel. As far as hitting stuff at night, a good radar will pick up both the tug and its tow, but that is where knowledge of nav lights comes into play -- it is actually easier to see at night. And semi-submerged obstacles are as easily missed during the day. At least at night you are likely to be going slow. Moreover, other technologies exist to detect those as well: FLIR, scanning sonar.
    I somewhat agree with your logic, But hypothetically if you le
    I hate to barge in on the speculation war; but even just by myself and my boat, it's hard to fall asleep while driving a boat because we know falling asleep and letting the boat drive itself ends with a parade of lights type "accident" or slamming into the shore and looking like an idiot on the rocks.

    Unfortunately we won't know his side of the story so we can make up facts like how dumb the guy was 180 degrees off course, how drugged up and drunk he was, or how many times he repeated 3rd grade. The truth is he was just some kid who shouldn't have been put in charge of driving 25 people around with a 65 foot boat in the middle of the night.

    It takes more than sleep deprivation or texting to hit the Coronados with a 65 footer; lack of experience is definitely to blame. I wonder what the crew was doing; at 2 am it would be criminal to only have one guy on watch and piloting in the dark.

    Airline pilots are known for having drinks before and during a flight; yet they don't plunge people into the water from it. It's their experience that counts; and having two other guys to smack them in the head to wake up when attention is critical.

    People say sport boats run like surf shops rotating minimum wage crew for jobs nobody wants; but I do think it fair and reasonable to sue the ownership of the operation so he can go into a field where lives won't be lost.... like running an airline. please let me know the name so I can ride safely with the drunk that flew B2's in WWII.
    Did you forget about the two airline pilots that had been drinking before their flight a couple of years ago and they both fell asleep and over shot the airport by 380 miles before they woke up. The towers seen the plane on the radar and they didn't respond to their calls. I guess that's what happens when you turn off the radio. Guess what their excuse was??
     
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    Happy444

    Newbie
    Sep 4, 2016
    1
    1
    San Diego
    Name
    MA
    Boat
    Sierra
    What a crazy incident, I'm so glad no one was hurt. I've been on the Invicta and while the parties were fun, there was always a focus on safety. I can imagine the chaos of a boat wreck on a moonless morning, so much panic and the different ways that people respond to an emergency. Just glad everyone made it.
     
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    Torey purser

    Newbie
    Nov 2, 2016
    1
    0
    48
    Long Beach CA
    Name
    Torey
    Boat
    None
    K enough bs, I'm looking for information from anyone interested in making sure something like this can never happen again.

    1. Richard Allen - was Mr. Allen a licensed master?

    2. Ryan McNichol - does anyone know if Mr. McNichol has a history of drug or alcohol problems?

    3. Did this vessel or any other at H&M have a history of drug or alcohol abuse?

    4. These vessels for hire are required to conduct periodic checks of all safety gear as well as man overboard and abandon ship drills. They are also required to maintain written logs of these activities for USCG inspection on demand. Does anyone have knowledge as to whether it is common practice for these drills not to be conducted or for these logs to be forged?

    5. There are rumors that this vessel's auto pilot was down. Anyone know whether this is accurate?

    6. This master allegedly turned off the radar, gps, sounder and alarms. Is this common practice?

    7. I am aware of the Conquest but can you guys start listing all the times these vessels have hit the islands due to neglect of the master including being asleep at the wheel.

    Any person with information related to the safety record of this vessel or this landing please PM me and we'll switch to a secure channel. Deckhands, captains, managers, charter agents, passengers - Firsthand knowledge or information leading to firsthand knowledge is all worthwhile. If you knew or heard something you think might be worthwhile use a PM. Don't hold back now is the time for this industry to reform.

    Boats run by professional captains hitting islands is inexcusable.

    Larry
    Please contact me I have all the info I was on the boat before Richard Allen was on there. I testified in court about this boat. Torey Purser on FB or call 951 316 6611
     
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    el Toro

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Feb 19, 2003
    9,155
    1,631
    Point Loma
    Name
    Nate
    Boat
    Artemis
    I knew someone who worked on overnight boats during the summer months in san diego back when he was in high school, he didn't drink, smoke or use drugs. He worked on a boat with no second and only two deckhands including himself. It was a well known 65' sport boat that was completely booked for the summer.The boat was basically in the slip enough time to unload and load then out again. After getting bait the watches(driving the boat) would be divided into 3 groups 1st, 2nd and 3rd, the last shift would go untill day light. After working 17 straight days with appx 3.5 to 5 hours of sleep everyday, the night of his 18th day, he had first watch and shortly fell asleep at the wheel and luckily enough woke up just before day break at the wheel. LUCKILY nothing happened to the passengers or anyone else. The owner said to him don't ever fall asleep again at the wheel, That was it. When the boat got in, he quit thanking the higher power nothing bad happened, and decided to go back to college. He still thinks about all the boats out on the water at night, when he is on his own boat, Not knowing if the other boat close to him is paying attention or awake at the wheel.

    Sweet Jesus, I don't think you know me or I know you, but I could have written those exact words. Fortunately, I used the watch alarm religiously.
     
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    Cleon Loyd

    Newbie
    Sep 12, 2016
    1
    1
    San Diego
    Name
    C.L
    Boat
    Unspecified
    "Imbeciles"??? really ____? oh who are you again???? Love to have a cup of coffee with ya, and let you know damn straight who I am. wanna cast stones pal??? find something better to do.
    Word on the street is the safety briefings are a bit more intense, safety gear is being inspected and crews are doing their drills at the landings now. Captains are pissed off at Invicta for being such imbeciles. Landings are riding herd. Any truth?
     
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