28 Foot Force Project

HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
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103
Maui
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Maka
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Force 28
We waited until that layup dried enough to work on (8 hours). Then, did a light sanding to knock down any burrs. Cleaned with a vacuum and and acetone wipe and did another 3 layers:



1 layup = 1.5oz mat/18oz roving/1.5oz mat

We got a lot more done this weekend than usual. Since we are only doing 3 layers at a time and finishing with tapered mat, each of the layups are coming out extremely nice and require basically no grinding between layups. Looks like we are going to get much better chemical bonds this way too. It's resin-rich in the lower part of the crack, but we are keeping this as minimal as possible without having bubbles.

We got two layups done today alone. This method seems much better than what we were doing before (trying to do more layers). If we can keep this up gonna finish this boat in no time.
 
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HelluvaBoater

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 7, 2012
195
103
Maui
Name
Maka
Boat
Force 28
Last night we completed the tunnel:



Got a little resin-happy on this last layup and it ended up alittle resin-rich in the lowest area on the last few layers, but I'll take that over air bubbles any day.


I ordered a couple diamond blades for my 4-1/2" Makita grinder and gonna try and use that from here on out since the abrasive pads get clogged when I grind the laminating resin to soon. Never used one before, but I think this is going to be the solution in order to keep moving along doing laminates (ie repairing bubbles, excess resin areas) before they cure enough to hit with an abrasive pad.

Here is the final count of the tunnel layers:

1. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
2. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
3. 1.5oz mat (22 x 33) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
4. 1.5oz mat - (32 x 33) reinforcement sheet for strut
5. 18oz roving (20 x 31) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
6. 18oz roving - (30 x 31) reinforcement sheet for strut
7. 1.5oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel

8. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
9. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
10. 1.5oz mat (22 x 33) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
11. 1.5oz mat - (32 x 33) reinforcement sheet for strut
12. 18oz roving (20 x 31) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
13. 18oz roving - (30 x 31) reinforcement sheet for strut
14. 1.5oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel

15. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
16. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
17. 1.5oz mat (22 x 33) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
18. 1.5oz mat - (32 x 33) reinforcement sheet for strut
19. 18oz roving (20 x 31) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
20. 18oz roving - (30 x 31) reinforcement sheet for strut
21. 1.5oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel

22. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
23. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
24. 1.5oz mat (22 x 33) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
25. 1.5oz mat - (32 x 33) reinforcement sheet for strut
26. 18oz roving (20 x 31) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
27. 18oz roving - (30 x 31) reinforcement sheet for strut
28. 1.5oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel

29. 1.5oz mat (22 x 33) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
30. 1.5oz mat - (32 x 33) reinforcement sheet for strut
31. triaxial (22 x 33) - reinforcement sheet for rudder
32. triaxial - (32 x 33) reinforcement sheet for strut
33 1.5oz mat (39 x 70) full sheet over tunnel

34. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
35. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
36. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel

37. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
38. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
39. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel

40. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
41. 18 oz roving - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel
42. 1.5 oz mat - (38 x 74) full sheet over tunnel


TOTALS:

Full 1.5oz mat sheets: 15
Full 18oz roving sheets: 7
Reinforcement mat sheets for rudder/strut: 5
Reinforcement roving sheets for rudder/strut: 4
Reinforcement triaxial sheets for rudder/strut: 1


**These numbers does not include the initial first "tack" layer of 1.5oz mat over the mold, or the 5 layers of mat/roving/mat/roving/mat which were ground out about 50% because there were bubbles in a some areas.

The thinnest part of the tunnel is over an inch thick, being even thicker in the rudder/strut areas.

Once we get the bulkheads in place, we will do some more layers that will overlap the tunnel. The shaft tube will overlap the tunnel layers too.

Now, it's time to finish the stringers...
 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
Maui
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Maka
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Force 28
Decided to finish the engine now, so I've been working on that for the last month. Looks like it is all dialed. Starts right up and sounding good with no smoke and no leaks.

-New cummins head
-Adjusted valves
-New injectors
-Resealed CAV pump
-Pressure tested oil cooler, cleaned cavity
-Resurfaced turbo and exhaust manifold gasket surfaces
-Upgraded cooling to all to 1" NPT
-New coolant pump
-Plastigauge check of 1 main and 1 rod bearing showed within spec
-Had turbo blade checked, looked ok
-Moved turbo to high mount
-Checked compression which was good
-New freeze plugs
-New tappet cover
-New fuel pump bracket
-New oil pan gasket + RTV
-New expansion tank bracket
-All new hoses, belt
-Heat exchanger serviced and tested

I put coolant in it and let it idle for 20 minutes then gave it a little throttle. Never got temps above 150 with an IR gun. Oil pressure is good at 57PSI. I got the idle speed at 700RPMs which is about what's recommended. Probably gonna have to tune it once it's in the boat and has a load on it, but for now it is sounding great. Just a few more small things to do and I think it's ready for service.












 
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hiroshi808

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Nov 2, 2010
275
5
Kauai
Name
Ryan
Boat
Hiroshi
Keep up the good work! Talk about patience, quality work, time effort, investment etc...
If anything goes wrong, you will know top of your head, what went wrong.
 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
Maui
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Maka
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Force 28
Thanks for the kind words.

Last night we got some more layers done on the stingers. Mat/roving/mat connecting the inside faces of the stringers to the hull. The inside stringer glass overlap the tunnel.which is a nice bonus.







I've found sometimes the resin likes to sink down as it dries, leaving bubbles along the top edge of the layup and a slightly resin rich area in the lowest part. Not sure if this can be prevented, but thinking about switching from VE to iso resin.

 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
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Maui
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Maka
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Force 28
I spent the entire day painting the engine. I started the engine and let it idle up to temp to warm it up. Then I de-greased and pressure washed about 8 times until I was sure I had all the oils off. Cleaned most spots with a wire brush. I removed most of the hoses, heat exchanger, starter, expansion tank, coolant pipe, alternator, pulley, etc, etc. I used a lot of compressed air and let it dry for a couple hours. I hung items to be painted by string too. Then I sprayed the exhaust manifold with High Temp white paint. I then sprayed the entire engine with Rustoleum Gloss White Enamel. I taped off all the sensors and barbs and took my time. Looks like it came out pretty nice. Took about 10 hours total. Gonna let it dry 2 days, then touch it up, then let it dry some more and reassemble everything.











 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
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Maka
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Force 28
Got the engine back together and did a full throttle test to make sure it's good.


It sounds good to me... Temps and oil pressures all seem fine. Now, just need to get a new belt tensioner and and an "energize to stop" fuel solenoid instead of an "energize to run" solenoid.

Was thinking about getting an exhaust elbow, but now that I think about it, no sense in rushing that until the engine is in the boat.

** I later figured out the governor spring on the CAV pump was set at the 180HP setting. I changed it to the 210HP setting (the middle hole) and now I am getting 2900 RPM @ full throttle with no load (spec is 2800). The engine has a lot more power now. I guess it spent the first half of it's life at the lower setting which I think is a good thing.... Everything is pointing toward this being a good engine so I'm stoked at the moment.
 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
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Maka
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Force 28
Thanks a lot.

Engine is going good but I had a setback with the glassing. My buddy and I did 3 layers of 1.5oz mat/18oz roving/1.5oz mat over top of one of the stringers to finish them off.

We used rollers like normal and got all the bubbles out, but it looks like the
VE resin oozed down leaving bubbles at the top. This is also where the fabric has to make several bends which probably contributed to the bubbles even though I radiused the corners.





Now, I have to wait for it to cure and grind the bubbles out. In the end it will add some strength, but I still have to grind it out and redo it which sets me back a lot. I heard that isophthalic tooling resin is better for vertical surfaces, so I am going to give it a try especially since I have so much vertical work coming up. I still have a couple jugs of VE resin that I can use in other areas. I might also try using 3/4 oz mat instead of the 1.5. It will be 3 weeks until the resin arrives. Probably try to grind the bubbles out in a week or two but this definitely sets me back a while.

Edit: Looking back we were probably too generous with the resin (causing the sagging) and the third layer was too many in one layup. Going to try doing less layers at a time, with less resin and also a lighter 3/4 oz mat.
 
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Kinaiahi61

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Jan 17, 2012
519
206
Lihue, Hi
Name
Kalani
Boat
Kai Kea
What I ended up doing was really "bussing the glass up." Pull it, stretch it, bunch it, whatever it takes to "relax" the glass strands and let them take the radius. Fold it on where the radius is and beat with a mallet. It was a trick that was recommended on another forum. I used Iso resin almost exclusively with some VE resin, and loved working with the Iso a lot more. Good luck you're almost there. Aloha
 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
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Maka
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Force 28
Mahalo!!! I might try the mallet thing, that sounds brilliant.

The recent layups with bubbles have really set me back because I have to wait for the resin to cure enough to grind.

I had to change something so in addition to switching to ISO tooling resin, I ended up buying a 176 yard roll of 3/4 oz mat for $280 from Fiberglass HI.



I think having that in my arsenal is going to make things way better. With the 3/4 oz mat, I will have to do more layers, but at least I won't have to wait around for the resin to cure enough to grind the bubbles out. Until this point I have used mostly 1-1/2 oz mat for everything and I think the 3/4 oz is going to sag less on the vertical surfaces.

Eager to get to work, but I still have over a week until the ISO resin arrives.
 

HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
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New toys today that were suggested on BoatDesign.net...

New 4-1/2" 7amp Makita Grinder (16mm arbor) and some diamond blade grinding discs off eBay. These grinding discs are designed for granite, so fiberglass should be no problem. I had to get the new grinder because the discs didn't fit my old grinder. My least favorite part of glasswork is the grinding. These should make it a lot more tolerable, so I'm stoked. They cut easier, seem to create a lot less dust, do not clog as easy, are easier to clean and won't get dull like the normal abrasive discs.

 
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Kinaiahi61

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Jan 17, 2012
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206
Lihue, Hi
Name
Kalani
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Kai Kea
Those are great for removing a lot of material. If you need to feather and finesse the 36 grit 10 pack from amazon is cheap enough and work good at smoothing everything so that the glass lays nice. Keep at it, looking great!!!
 

HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
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Name
Maka
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Force 28
Those are great for removing a lot of material. If you need to feather and finesse the 36 grit 10 pack from amazon is cheap enough and work good at smoothing everything so that the glass lays nice. Keep at it, looking great!!!
Thanks for the kind words and advice, it's highly appreciated. I completely agree about the 4" 36-grit, I have used that most of the time up to this point along with the flapper pads which are more aggressive. I saw some guys on boatdesign.net love the 4-1/2" diamond blades. Par is da man on boatdesign.net and he swears by them: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fi...building/diamond-blades-composites-49614.html

Sometimes I also go up to the 7-inch grinder if I have a huge flat area.
 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
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Maka
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Force 28
The wind has been coming hard out of the south for the last couple weeks and blew keawe leaves all in the boat. After cleaning up the leaves, I put the tarps back up to keep the leaves out.

It took about 5 hours total to grind out all the bubbles in the stbd stringer. I was able to do the whole job with the same diamond blade. The diamond blades create much less dust than the abrasive pads. They don't wear out for a very long time. They do occasionally get gunked up but they can be cleaned off. They do leave semicircles in the fiberglass if you leave it in one spot, so you really have to keep the disc moving back and fourth. After I removed most of the material with the diamond blade, I went back with the regular grinder and then the random orbital to give a nice smooth surface for the next layer of glass.

Here's a pic right before I cleaned the leaves and did the final grinding:



In the meantime, the ISO tooling resin had arrived. We went over the tops of both stringers to "cap" them. We did...

3/4oz mat
18oz roving
<waited 2 hours>
3/4oz mat
18 oz roving
3/4 oz mat







The glass runs completely over the tops and extends 2-inches onto the hull on both sides. I love the combination of the ISO resin and the 3/4 oz mat. Not a single bubble in the layup and basically NO sagging, which translates to no grinding (and no WAITING for it to cure enough to grind). Even though we are achieving less thickness, we can just do more layups and the resin doesn't ooze to the bottom because we are doing less layers at a time.

I consider the stringers done now. They have about twice the fiberglass that was recommended and we also put a TON of 1" strips in all the inner corners.

Tomorrow, I plan to do one more round of tabbing the stringers into the bulkhead and transom, then I'm gonna start working on aligning the shaft, v-drive and strut.
 

Puna Shibi

Member
Nov 14, 2016
41
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57
Hawaii
Name
james McCormick
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25' mosquito
The wind has been coming hard out of the south for the last couple weeks and blew keawe leaves all in the boat. After cleaning up the leaves, I put the tarps back up to keep the leaves out.

It took about 5 hours total to grind out all the bubbles in the stbd stringer. I was able to do the whole job with the same diamond blade. The diamond blades create much less dust than the abrasive pads. They don't wear out for a very long time. They do occasionally get gunked up but they can be cleaned off. They do leave semicircles in the fiberglass if you leave it in one spot, so you really have to keep the disc moving back and fourth. After I removed most of the material with the diamond blade, I went back with the regular grinder and then the random orbital to give a nice smooth surface for the next layer of glass.

Here's a pic right before I cleaned the leaves and did the final grinding:



In the meantime, the ISO tooling resin had arrived. We went over the tops of both stringers to "cap" them. We did...

3/4oz mat
18oz roving
<waited 2 hours>
3/4oz mat
18 oz roving
3/4 oz mat







The glass runs completely over the tops and extends 2-inches onto the hull on both sides. I love the combination of the ISO resin and the 3/4 oz mat. Not a single bubble in the layup and basically NO sagging, which translates to no grinding (and no WAITING for it to cure enough to grind). Even though we are achieving less thickness, we can just do more layups and the resin doesn't ooze to the bottom because we are doing less layers at a time.

I consider the stringers done now. They have about twice the fiberglass that was recommended and we also put a TON of 1" strips in all the inner corners.

Tomorrow, I plan to do one more round of tabbing the stringers into the bulkhead and transom, then I'm gonna start working on aligning the shaft, v-drive and strut.
 

Puna Shibi

Member
Nov 14, 2016
41
46
57
Hawaii
Name
james McCormick
Boat
25' mosquito
It's Hawaii so more is better.We ran our bulkheads every 18".Force etc recommended 24". But we felt using thermo light ,instead of ply, we would have a 20 year boat.Not a see yah every year boat.Amazing work on your vessel, have been watching from beginning.Looks like you will be on the water soon.Tight lines and bloody decks.
 

HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
Maui
Name
Maka
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Force 28
Thanks for the kind words. Always trying to do more than is recommended with everything. Check out the thickness of the tunnel where the rudder will go. 1-1/2" thick vinyl esther. 18 oz roving, 1.5oz mat and triaxial sheets

 
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HelluvaBoater

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Mar 7, 2012
195
103
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Maka
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Force 28
Here we are 6 months later. Getting ready to finish glassing in the last bulkhead. I had some other projects and have been taking my time trying to make it beefy and nice. Trying to put thought into everything and trying to use all the best materials since I haven't skimped so far.



^ For the bulkheads, I decided to use Kay-Cel 1/2" reinforced foam board I got from Fiberglass Hawaii. At $212.25 a sheet (plus tax), it ain't cheap. But it won't absorb water and weighs less than plywood. The strength is supposedly greater than plywood of equal thickness. The sandwich construction makes it really strong. The only downfall to this stuff is that if you want to bolt into it, you really have to really distribute the load and use backing plates.

















^I glassed each side of the panels with 3/4 mat | 7oz cloth | 3/4 mat using VE resin





^ The foam board has mat and woven fiberglass built into it to already. It has a binder you can see liquify when you wet it out so you know you are getting a really good bond. http://www.kayco-composites.com/kc_kaycel.html











^ Bedded one side of the first bulkhead with peanut butter and the other side will be glassed in. The forward bulkheads all use the following tabbing schedule:

3/4 mat 12"
1208 combo 12"
3/4 mat 12"
1208 combo 12"
3/4 mat 12"

For the stainless steel fittings on the bottoms of the fuel tank, I used a generous amount of Simpson Strong Tie ET-22 Epoxy. The same epoxy used to anchor rebar into concrete (Home Depot)...









^ Boxing the area around the front engine mounts as much as reasonably possible since this is where the shaft thrust is transferred into the boat and the main engine stringers meet up with this forward bulkhead.





































^ Old diced tomato cans I washed out and get from a restaurant's recycling bin. I re-use them after the resin cures. I use a lot of cans when I make peanut butter batches because that's basically a one-time use. I store my measuring cups up-side down over the dump buckets which makes them last a lot longer.





^ Still using small batches of VE resin for tack coats on cured glass but stitched back from ISO to poly laminating resin since I saw basically no difference and that is what everybody else uses.



























^ Tabbing schedule I am doing on the last 2 bulkheads are insane. I am doing so because they cross the tunnel area and I am expecting to use some extra jugs of resin in this area for safety and peace of mind. Tabbing schedule on these aft 2 bulkheads are:

3/4 mat 20"
1208 combo 20"
3/4 mat 20"
1208 combo 16"
3/4 mat 16"

<wait 24 hours and hand sand>

3/4 mat 12"
1208 combo 12"
3/4 mat 12"
1208 combo 8"
3/4 mat 8"



















^ Every single inner corners gets radiused with a filet and five or six 1-inch strips so none of my glass has to make 90 degree turns.



The plan now is to finish the last bulkhead. Then, cut down some of them and put in foam board running fore-aft which will create fish holds and box everything in even more. It took me a lot of time to figure out the fact that I should finish the inside of the boat before I float the rudder and gear into place place... but I am well on my way now that I figured that out.
 
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HelluvaBoater

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 7, 2012
195
103
Maui
Name
Maka
Boat
Force 28
Man, I hate the itch... I have 3 pairs of fiberglassing jeans and long sleeve cotton shirts that I take off and leave near the boat every time I work on it. I try to keep it all near the boat. I never mix my fiberglass laundry with my normal laundry. I hose off outside and shower with cold water. Keeping sanding and grinding to a minimum. I always try to use a chisel or file before I grind. Wearing polyester clothes when working around polyester dust is stupid (they are attracted to each other). 100% cotton clothes are key. I've been itchy for years now and sort of just accept it but sometimes I drag my feet if I know I'm gonna get real itchy. I used to get Tyvek'd up every time I grinded, but now I just wear long sleeves and throw an old t-shirt over my head.