22.5ft Complete restoration...

Discussion in 'Check Out My Boat Customization' started by tamezjos, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. aguachico

    aguachico I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Mariano Matamoros Tijuana
    Name:
    Art
    Boat:
    Trident Yak- Grady White Seafarer
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    Josh; mucho props to you for this post. The posting alone is a lot of work.

    Can you explain the divinycell? Is it just a filler where you do not want to use plywood? Why do you choose it over plywood? How do you prep it so it doesn't absord a lot of resin?

    thanks

    Art
     
  2. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

    Location:
    San Diego
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    Josh
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    23 Custom
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    Art,

    The actual name for anything that is sandwiched between fiberglass is called "core". The logic behind the "core" idea is that the thicker the wall (of fiberglass in this case) the stronger it is, just look at the construction industry, have you even seen an "I" beam, I'm sure you have, the logic behind the I beam is the same idea as the core, the thicker the I beam is, the stronger it gets, same thing happens with cored fiberglass, the thickness relates directly to it's strength.

    Two factors to consider in boat building are:

    How durable the material is, or how suceptible it is in the water environment where it's going to be used. I'm taking about material decay. Plywood will rot. Divinycell is a composite material, it will not rot.

    Weight. The heavier the boat, the more water it will displace, the more power it will require to move it, the more fuel it will use, the more $$$ you'll end up using to move it. Divinycell weights far less.. maybe 5-7% the weight of comparable thickness plywood.

    So Divinycell is a semi-rigid PVC foam used as a sandwich core material when strength, stiffness and low weight is desired.

    The other issue to consider would be how much resin will it absorb. Divinycell is a close cell foam, so basically it doesn't "absorb" resin, you need to cover the cells that were left open when the sheet was cut but that's not absorbing in my book, that's wetting...

    Also the close cell characteristic of Divinycell also makes it makes it impervious to water.

    The bottom line is that even though any core is going to be sandwiched between layers of fiberglass, it's going to be only a matter of time till water gets thru the fiberglass layers and into the core. I'd rather have the peace of mind that my core will not rot, thus I will keep my strength, and the boat is lighter thus I'll spend less money every time I use the boat.

    The divinycell pays for itself in a flash with today's gas prices.

    To answer your last question of how do I prep the divinycell, well I don't, I just use my compressed-air-gun to make sure it has no dust or so.

    Josh out

    Enjoy the mini update guys.... As Fred Archer says, knowledge is everything...[​IMG]



    I'll post some pictures tomorrow....
     
  3. aguachico

    aguachico I've posted enough I should edit this section

    Location:
    Mariano Matamoros Tijuana
    Name:
    Art
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    Trident Yak- Grady White Seafarer
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    Josh; thanks for the info. So where is it not practical to use the divincell? Does the ISO-resin bond to it?

    Thanks
    Art
     
  4. joedirt_oef04

    joedirt_oef04 Newbie

    Location:
    Richlands, NC
    Name:
    Joe
    Boat:
    16 ft SeaArk
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    You are a fiber glass god, amazing work bro.
     
  5. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

    Location:
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    Josh
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    Art,

    It would not be practical to use the divinycell in an area that you need the extra bite that marine plywood wood provide, for example the transom or (in my case) the captn's seat fiberglass/chair combo which holds the pedestal. For areas like this there's other composite materials that do the trick, in this areas I would use "coosa" instead of "divinycell". Coosa provides this "other" qualities that Divinycell does not have. I didn't use Coosa because it is expensive and I was doing a lot of work that would have involved a lot $$$ for that composite. Boats like Defiance use Coosa on their transom and some other areas of the boat, and are worth considering because of their high tech materials. And no, I don't work or have worked for Defiance/Shamrock.

    Using regular plywood in my book is definitely not good, I would use marine plywood which is denser and has a "glue" that is resistant to moisture. But if you use any type of wood, even balsa, be extremely careful taking care of the holes you make thru the wood. Every hole has to be sealed with 5200 on both sides of the transom or your wood will eventually soak and rot.

    As far as resins go, all resins bond to Divinycell, I used ISO resin because it has much better properties overall than standard resin. I explained this in-depth in an update on this post.


    Josh
     
  6. mochosla

    mochosla Newbie

    Location:
    Granada Hills CA.
    Name:
    Carlos
    Boat:
    2000 21' WA Striper
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    Josh, mi amigo, estas cabron!!! This is one of the most amazing boat restoration posts I have seen!! In the end, whatever the cost of the project is will be rewarded by the fact that you are riding a boat you brought back to life. Congrats and be proud!!. Honestly, you should create a photo album in one of those free photo hosting sites (photobucket.com) and upload all the pictures. This is a great post but I would love to see all the pics.

    Saludos!!

    Quiero mas fotos!!
     
  7. dorn697

    dorn697 Newbie

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    Scott
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    Gracias jefe pero ya tengo maestro de espanol, pero busco un maesteo de fibra de vidrio. El tanque para las sardinas es increible, Y la forma que lo hiciste estuvo muy bien. Que te parece mi español ahora.:D
     
  8. mongo75

    mongo75 Newbie

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    Rancho Santa Margarita
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    Danny
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    25' 1968 Luhrs
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    Damn Josh, a little late on the reply LOL. So far today I've layed about 200 sq ft of 1708 and about 5 gals of epoxy, well 4.75 not counting the quart that got cooked because I wasn't working fast enough..... I hate 1708!!!!
     
  9. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

    Location:
    San Diego
    Name:
    Josh
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    Nice, very nice... was that fluent speaking/writing or an hour affair ??? You sound VERY improved compared to you last statement.

    Some people have asked me questions thru PM, others thru this thread, I'd rather have everybody ask questions here so others may pick up something good in the process. I'm no master, but I'm open enough to share whatever knowledge I have, that's if I can answer the question [​IMG]

    Josh
     
  10. ConSeaMate

    ConSeaMate Legend in my own mind

    Location:
    Escondido
    Name:
    Buster Brown
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    28' Silverton "ConSeaMate"
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    I know spanish!.....Lavase sus manos quando aguierre el pito......

    Can Someone tell me what that means?
     
  11. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

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    Josh
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    1708 is hard to make it form to an un-even (not flat) surface, corner, etc. I hear you, the brush is your best friend in those instances.
     
  12. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

    Location:
    San Diego
    Name:
    Josh
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    Hey Frank, I'm showing the thread to George, the main guy that helped me in this ordeal, I just stumbled uppon your reply... I gotta say that's funny... " wash your hands when you handle your dick".... I don't know if that is a must-have-phrase-in-your-arsenal in a second landguage, but who cares....

    Josh
     
  13. robbertoe

    robbertoe Newbie

    Location:
    long beach ca
    Name:
    robert
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    xfactor
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    it just took me over an hr to read this thread :_hot_:and it stops with a dick joke.
     
  14. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

    Location:
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    Josh
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    Robert...

    I'm making an update... It should be posted in an hour... the joke is not the end of this story... it isn't in the books yet....
     
  15. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

    Location:
    San Diego
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    Josh
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    I'm back guys... sorry for the delay... I've been working on the boat all day long...

    Ok, back to business...


    With the deck floor in place it was time to make the covers for the fuel tanks. That piece of wood is helping me visualize where the cover will end.

    319.JPG


    320.JPG



    On the Stbd side the same applies, the cover will overlap with the fiberglass-covered-foam that encloses the two PVC rigging pipes.

    321.JPG



    Some detail as to where the cover has to end. The idea is to take as less space as possible.

    322.JPG



    Back to the port side, on this picture you can see the space left around the tank, is not much.

    323.JPG



    The mold for the Stbd tank cover, this is a very simple mold, if you can call it a mold. It's actually just two pieces of melamine with a sculpey-made radius. Notice how I draw the part on the mold, this is a trick, as the resin
    will soak the ink and the drawing will be transposed to the finished part, this way I can use these lines as my guides to cut the part to it's final shape. It really speeds things up.

    325.JPG



    This is the finished port tank cover, still in the "mold". I didn't have much space for the tank covers and for this reason I didn't want to make them thick. I used some of the Luan that I had around, two pieces as you can see to give some bone to the parts.

    326.JPG



    Here are the two tank parts cooking.

    327.JPG


    Here is the port fuel cover gelcoated.

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    Here is the stbd fuel cover gelcoated.

    355.JPG



    ***********************************************

    I couldn't make the angle of the rail bases fit my boat, the standard angles (45, 60 deg) didn't work for me, so I had to fabricate some round wedges that would help me modify the angle on the bases. I made a wedge strip... here it is

    328.JPG



    Here I'm cutting the round wedges for the bases....

    329.JPG



    Here you can see the bow rail installed. In some bases I had to use 2 wedges. In this picture you can also see Ruben taking off the antifouling paint. I live 30 mins from La Salina ramp, there is no reason to leave the boat in the water. You can see one VHF antenna is also installed, Shksp 8900. The supports for the anchor roller plank are also installed, they were drilled from the inside of the boat, as well as fiberglassed in place. That anchor is a manson, inside I have 35ft of chain and 600ft of 7/16 rope. I haven't installed the windlass yet, it's still waiting it's turn on my shelf.

    330.JPG



    ****************************************************

    Now for the engine cover. I didn't realize I don't have many pictures of the mold or the fiberglass process. So these will have to sufice. The engine cover is the centerpiece of the deck. It was designed to provide maximum-deck-space-allowed, in other words it was done as small as possible to cover the engine and to hold the noise reduction-aluminum-covered-foam. I was aiming for 1/2 inch minimum clearance around the engine, that's only on a couple of areas around the engine, as you probably know the engine is not a box, so 1/2 inch on those
    4-5 spots around the engine was good enough. The engine compartment is quite big so there was no need to provide extra room with the cover. I also wanted my deck to be leveled, no steps, just the engine cover.Here is the mold with 4 layers of fiberglass, then the cabosil goes in to fill the gaps and hold the divinycell.

    331.JPG



    George applying the cabosil generously throughout the part.

    332.JPG



    Another view, notice how I used balsa wood on the very edge, all around the part, this was done to control the height as this area will hold a gasket.

    333.JPG


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    Everything is ready and the next couple layers of fiberglass will begin.

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    340.JPG



    First layer of mat going in.

    339.JPG

    After the part cured and was taken out of the mold, a problem was noticed on the adhesion of the core to the fiberglass, there were areas where the fiberglass was not glued to the divinycell, this is not a common thing but this was not my first time solving this problem. You notice it very easy because the part has a different color in the area, and if you press hard against it you can bend the fiberglass and make contact with the divinycell. There is a technique to fix the problem but it takes a lot of time. I had to make several (a lot) of small holes (1/8") every few inches apart in the areas where we should have had more cabosil but we didn't, I'm saying here that this happens when you don't have enough cabosil, or you don't press hard enough on the divinycell, this creates voids, cabosil voids that need to be filled up. So I prepared a batch of not so thick, syrup thick cabosil and used a syringe to fill the "gaps". Then after you're done you have to make sure the cabosil is not leveled with the fiberglass skin or it will shrink into the part and you'll have to cabosil-it again. I leave about 1/8 more cabosil on top of the hole. After all it's cured I come back and sand everything up to make it flush.


    Don't be skeptical, this technique works, and works very well. You end up with a part that is as strong as any other one. You are welcomed to come and jump on my engine cover to find out for yourself.

    So here is the engine cover all cleaned up and in place, let's take a look at how all the pieces of the puzzle come together.

    341.JPG

    342.JPG

    343.JPG

    The part that is between the door and the engine cover is the cornerstone for the engine cover because it rest's on the side deck's lips, so it's like a lid, but it also has a lip of its own that merges with the lip of the port/stbd deck sides to complete an all-around-lip-support in which the engine cover rests. For this part I used 1/2" divinycell core on the sides, and 3/4" divinycell for the middle section of the part. You can see in the following picture exactly how this looks, here the part has just been sprayed with gelcoat.

    350.JPG

    The part is the one on the top, you can see how it has like two flaps on the sides, these are the ones that rest on the lip of the deck-sides, you can also notice how the middle section is thicker, this is because of the 3/4" divinycell. A view of the other end of the part.

    352.JPG



    In the following picture you can see the two divinycells.

    351.JPG



    In this picture you can notice the lip and also how the middle section of this part is "fatter"

    353.JPG


    Here is the engine cover being gelcoated

    344.JPG

    345.JPG



    Each side of the boat has two fish boxes, one rectangular and one special-shape. Here are all the hatches being gelcoated, sand was placed in the gelcoat for the non-skid.

    346.JPG

    347.JPG



    Here you can see all the not-so-big parts being gelcoated at the same time. The swim platform supports are there too.

    348.JPG

    349.JPG



    Here are the two port-side hatch covers.

    356.JPG



    Here are the two stbd-side hatch covers.

    357.JPG



    Here is the "cornerstone" part besides the big fish-box hatch cover so you can make a size comparison.

    358.JPG




    Josh out
     
  16. ConSeaMate

    ConSeaMate Legend in my own mind

    Location:
    Escondido
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    Buster Brown
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    Nice!............
     
  17. jaw1970

    jaw1970 Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA. USA
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    Koa Honu 28 Skipjack
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    Thanks Josh for this educational thread. You've inspired me to at least think about building an outboard bracket for my 1969 Searay. Of course I'll have to re-read this thread again and ask you a couple of hundred questions before I dive in.
    John
     
  18. Fishingtail

    Fishingtail Fishingtail

    Location:
    Oceanside
    Name:
    Bob
    Boat:
    18', Seaswirl CC, Fishingtail
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    Hey Josh, Great post as always. What book or books did you buy to get your info on working with fiberglass and materials? Thanks Bob
     
  19. tamezjos

    tamezjos Got Fish?

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    Josh
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    I'd recomend 2 books, and you have to read them both as I have.

    **************************************************************************
    Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair
    by Don Casey $22
    Amazon.ca: Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair: Don Casey: Books

    This book is very easy to read and has a lot of drawings, very good explanations, you'll be drawn to keep reading this book, is very well written.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual
    by Allan H. Vaitses $30
    Amazon.ca: The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual: Allan H. Vaitses: Books

    This book is harder to read compared to Don Casey's book, but still a good read. This book covers each topic in more detail, it goes deeper, I'm not saying that it is a technical book, only that it is like a 2nd level book and you need to read it.

    ********************************************

    Don Casey's book is the first book you should read to get your feet wet, and you'll need this basic "introduction" to the fiberglass lingo, in order to understand and appreciate the 2nd Book (Vaitses).

    One of these two books will not give you all the info you need, you need to get them both. I bought more books myself but these two cover all you need to know, and you'll find very good drawings on Casey's book which helps explain a lot of the techniques.

    The knowledge I gained over the months does not come only from these two books, but also from different guys throughout the country that I've been fortunate enough to see their work thru forums like this one, and also from Dave, the owner of the fiberglass warehouse where I get my supplies. DMC, Home - Fiberglass Warehouse in El Cajon, California. Last but not least has been my own experience on the subject.


    Come on Bob, ask the questions, there are no stupid questions. Shoot...


    Josh
     
  20. Fishingtail

    Fishingtail Fishingtail

    Location:
    Oceanside
    Name:
    Bob
    Boat:
    18', Seaswirl CC, Fishingtail
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    Hi Josh, thanks for the book info I have them on order. I did find the Fiberglass Warewouse web site and printed out their fiberglass book and been getting educated on the terminology and materials. Don't worry I will have a lot of question over the winter. I need to beef-up the transom of my Skipjack to take the bracket and motor, install built in tackle boxes and modify the deck to add more gas capacity and fish boxes. It's not as much work as you have done and I hope it comes out half as nice. Right now I'm drawing up the hull and figuring out where the center of gravity is so I can get my weight distribution correct or as close as I can so I don't get any porpoising effect after moving the engine back 3'. Looking forward to your next update and Thanks again

    Bob out
     

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