1st 16dayer on the Indy. Rod selection

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by richardblufin, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. richardblufin

    richardblufin Member

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    Richard Jones
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    Ok I have a 1 X 3 seeker with a Avet HXW 2nd I have a CalstAR 770xh WITH A Talica 25 with 100lb solid. 3rd rod thats my question. I have a Talica 50 with 130lb JB hollow. need a rod. Looking at a United Viper or should I get the Invictus? I have Wahoo gear. Just need help with the 3rd Tuna rod. Thanks wondering in Diego.
     
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  2. Baller

    Baller Jig Chucker

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    The Viper makes a great 130# rod. I would get it for that application.
    As for the UC lineup consider the following as a rough guideline:
    76 Raptor - 80#
    76 Centaur - 100#
    76 Viper - 130#
    76 Invictus - 150#
    Opinions vary as we all know but I doubt most would argue too much with the above..
     
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  3. fuj

    fuj Member

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    Viper. Based on what you already have, looks like you could use a heavier small bait rig. The Invictus is a much beefier rod and wouldn't be the best pick for sardine fishing.
     
  4. Mr GreenJeans

    Mr GreenJeans Well-Known "Member"

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    While I have not fished a 1x3, I have fished the 770xh. I would consider both to be finesse rods and on the light side of 100#. The viper 76 is a solid 130# rod and a good choice for 16 days. If possible, I recommend you get a second viper (borrow or buy), maybe from a friend or wherever. Or see if the boat can lend you a 770xxxh, 6463xxxxh, or similar. It's worth remembering that there are many ways to be under gunned when you hook a big fish. The reel can be too small, the line too light, and/or the rod too light. But you can put a small reel with light line on a heavy rod and still fish aggressively. But if the rod is too light it will bottom out on a big fish and you will have to work your butt off to land the fish. During the middle of the day you will probably drop down to lighter line (I.e. 100#s) but IMO there is no need to drop down to a lighter rod.
     
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  5. reelconcerned

    reelconcerned Member

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    Richard; What 16 day trip are you on, I'm on the Sav-On tackle trip, good group
     
  6. richardblufin

    richardblufin Member

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    The MARCH 28TH TRIP.
     
  7. screamingreel

    screamingreel Long Range Fanatic

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    Hello Richard,

    Good luck on your 16-day trip! You will have a blast. As you know, rod selection is very subjective and a matter of taste. My experience with UC rods is they are a bit soft for their rating. Unclear of your preferences, but what you already have for rods are relatively light for YFT over 200 lbs. It really depends on how much drag you like and how hard you like to pull...

    I prefer stiff rods, so consider using UC rods one step lighter than the previous recommendation especially for 7.5 footers. Of course they would be effective either way depending on your preference...food for thought. There are many choices available. Discover what works for you.

    76 Raptor - 60#
    76 Centaur - 80#
    76 Viper - 100#
    76 Invictus - 130#

    FYI: My go-to heavy rods for big fish are Calstar GF765XXH & 765XXXH with roller guides. Not exactly the common choice these days, but they work for me. To each their own...

    Take your time and choose wisely. Enjoy the trip!

    - Jeff Burroughs
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
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  8. richardblufin

    richardblufin Member

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    tHANK YOU Jeff I THINK THE iNVICTUS is my choice
     
  9. Mr GreenJeans

    Mr GreenJeans Well-Known "Member"

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    Please be careful about jumping right to the Invictus. It is reportedly a beast of a rod. Please read a few reviews or find one to pull on.
     
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  10. ThunderMudder

    ThunderMudder Member

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    16 days, NICE! Indy, SUPERB! You will have fun! Enjoy.
    My 0.02
    Unless you have money burning a hole in your jeans, consider using the boat's rod(s) for some of your fill in gear.
    The INDY recently replaced most their rods with new Super Seekers.
    Also, IMO $500-600 is a fair chuck of change to blow on a rod you "might like".
    Ask the boat to loan you a 2x4 for 100# and a 3x5 for 130#/150# and use these to see how you like those rods to help determine what kind of rod you prefer.
    I consider myself still a relative newbie to 15+ day trip although i have 8+ under my belt and find I'm still tweeting my gear and style every couple years. yes, UC rods may seem like all the rage these days, but there are many very good rods available (thankfully--lotta choices!). Couple years ago i jumped at a new 70 Invictus and though its a good rod, it is by far NOT my go to rod of choice. I find myself grabbing either Phenix Axis 720 4xH or a Calstar 770XXH before the Invictus. Again, nothing really against the INvictus, good rod, just not great for my style, i prefer a different kind of rod.

    If you have the time and the $ for long trips, you my friend are just starting a wonderful journey which will likely see you acquire alot more gear (most guys i see are packing 7-10 heavy tuna rods (80# - 150#) for these trips and for good reason.

    Enjoy the journey and treasure the moments.
     
  11. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    Nallie did pretty well with that Phenix Axis 4XH on my last trip. Very good advice he gives on borrowing boat eqpt, it's all in good shape they won't have junk in that environment. Plus there will be many different rods of all sizes there and most people won't mind letting you pull on one to get a feel. Good luck!
     
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  12. cow man

    cow man Tuna addict

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    INVICTUS all the way Richard
    Centaur 100#
    Viper 100/130 easy
    INVICTUS 130/150
     
  13. ThunderMudder

    ThunderMudder Member

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    Hi Matt, you jumping on any trip(s) this spring? Likely not myself but hope to share the rail with you again. Good times.
    About the Axis 4XH, i just recently acquired this rod for my last fall trip--FYI i give it 2 thumbs up! You probably are thinking of the Axis 3XH which i used alot because i liked it (paired with Mak20SEA for 100# bait). My experience with the Axis 3XH and coupled with the conversation i had with Roger E of Sav-On led me to adding the Axis 4XH to my quiver.

    Here's my take on my decision making for buying rods for LR fishing and i hope the this may benefit the OP's decision making.
    Not in any specific order: price is somewhat a factor. If you end up really liking the rod, doesn't matter really what you paid as this little investment will last a long time and will continue to put a smile on your face, but the less you pay the less "risk" you feel, especially if this is a rod you have not put to test yourself.
    Size: the trend is longer rods 7'+ for rail fishing. The longer rods can mean more leverage to lift fish IF USED PROPERLY and longer rods keep the line further away from the boat to minimize getting cut off by rubbing the boat. Sav-On Roger brought 2 Phenix prototype rods to test on our last 15 fall trip, a 7.5' 3 or 4X and an 8' 3 or 4X (can't remember). 8'-- really!?! I can't remember if he had a chance to really test drive the longer rods but we may see these on the shelves soon enough. Call and talk to Roger if you want, he's a great guy and great help. Personally I don't see a need to go longer than 7' or the 7'2" Axis, but i have not tried the latest 7.5' models--might change my mind.
    Weight: some say these are rail rods and so weight is a non-factor. I disagree. Yes, when the fish is hooked much rod time is spend on the rail but most the time you are carrying the rod and with it a large heavy reel. Even utilizing my shoulder sling to carry the rod/reel, i find the lighter the outfit the happier i am, especially when the bite is slow--and when the sun is hot. Perhaps the greatest factor about weight has to do with sensitivity. With the past trip having small sardines, this was really underscored. Effective flylining bait means you need to be in contact with your bait--albeit very small sometimes. A lighter outfit should enable you to better "feel' what is going on with the important business end of the line. Do yourself an experiment, 2 rod of similar length, one a metal pipe, the other a graphite rod. Holding each rod by the end in each hand with a short string and a small weight attached at the end. Jiggle the rods. You should notice significantly more "feel" from the little jiggles via the lighter graphite rod vs the heavier metal rod--simple physics.
    Composition: Mostly some kind of graphite or mostly F/glass: I prefer my rods with more graphite but can have a little glass for durability and tip softness. More graphite also means lighter compared to FG. Also, non-roller rods will be not only cheaper but much lighter (see above).
    Action: Somewhat unique to SD LR fishing is bait and flylining it. Soft tip helps cast bait and seem to reduce the hook tearing out of the bait as it is accelerated/cast away from the boat--better for the bait which should translate into happier and better swimming bait which in turn should mean more hook-ups. Super Seekers, Phenix Axis and UC rods have a nicer softer tip action compared to Calstar for the 3 and 4XH rods and so i generally choose to use my heavier Calstar Grafighters for larger baits. I chose Phenix Axis 4X over the Hybrid 4X largely due to the action. The Hybrid has a much faster action than Axis--also helped that the Axis is $150 cheaper than the Hybrid. You may decide on a faster action if you intend to use the rod for different purposes such as large baits or jigging.
    Aesthetics: yes to me it matters and like most there very much exists a degree of vanity in our gear. RickBerg definitely an exception. Recently saw Cousins Rod Co offering for big tuna. I think it a 3 or 4XH rod. I believe centurion FelixA won the rod in the raffle. Although he did say the rod performed well, i personally was not crazy about the way it looked. Too plain jane and the sticker job made the rod look cheap. For factory wrapped rods, the old Super Seekers are darn pretty.

    Well that's my take, hope it helped.
    Cheers.
     
  14. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    I agree that the Invictus is not the best all around rail rod available. It is a tool for a specific purpose. A heavy rod for high drag applications - kite - big bait.

    The 76 Viper is an incredible rod. It has a sensitive tip and a huge back end. A great heavy fly line rod that can be used as a heavy jig, kite or big bait stick.

    I also love the SS6463XXXXH. The softest of the bunch (even with all those X's).

    The suggestion to use the boats gear is always a good one. If you are planning on making LR fishing a repeat endeavor try as many as you can before purchase.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  15. richardblufin

    richardblufin Member

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    Thank you to all the fine fisherman who offered their opinion. My final choice is a Calstar 770XXH. She is being made at M&M rods in San Diego.
     
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  16. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    Hey John did you mean the 76 Viper? I would think the Raptor is a little light in the britches for real cow fishing no? Pretty sure this was just a slip up. I know how busy you are in that shop while you're multitasking, after all I wasted a half hour of your time amongst all the buzzing yesterday. :D
     
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  17. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    Nallie matter of fact I will be on the 16 day Sav-On trip running the same time as David's trip in April. Nothing against the boat, crew or group we fished with, all were top notch. I really enjoyed the whole experience. Just wanted to see what the Indy is all about. Very good possibility I might jump back on the X at some time. You said you consider yourself a somewhat newb to the long trips even with 8 or whatever under your belt, but I thought you looked pretty seasoned imo. That was my first ever long trip. I learned so much from all of you guys: yourself, Choate, Turd, Andy, Kurt, I wish I could figure out how Rocco stayed hooked up all the time, and of course all the crew. I am very grateful. I hope we get to fish together soon.

    It seems like shortly after that trip there were some terrible wild fires up there in Canada. That did not effect your neck of the woods did it?
     
  18. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Thanks for that!! I wrote it this AM before coffee. I meant the 76 Viper. The 70 Viper is cool as well.
     
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  19. ReelDealAngler

    ReelDealAngler Born To Fish

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    IMO the 7'6" UC Raptor is a 60lb rod (stretch to 80lb in a pinch), its got a soft tip and is parabolic so it will cast a pen cured sardine well with a 16 size reel. I have mine mated to a Mac 16 SEa or a Penn Torque 40NLD-2 both spooled with 80lb solid to the top for the 75lb to 150lb YFT application (mostly used for the Lupe as you are flirting with serious danger when using this rod and a smaller reel when in cow town).

    I like the 7'6" Viper for 130lb and the 7'6" Invictus for 150lb. Currently building a new 7'6" Centaur for the 100lb application.

    G
     
  20. canyonman

    canyonman Well-Known "Member"

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    Phenix axis series is a solid rod for a good price.
     

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