08.24.10 Top Gun Sportfishing - Lots of Miscomunication?

Discussion in 'Mainland Mexico Fishing Reports and Discussion' started by Odium, Aug 28, 2010.

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  1. Popachubby

    Popachubby Newbie

    Location:
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    Name:
    Cliff
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    By as detailed this report is I'm not sure if this guy would have ever been happy...one day of fishing is someone supposed to drop everything for one day..you say a bunch of stuff...but what if Juan really thought you were not coming...and when he realized you misunderstood..and tried to make it happen...It would seem you would be thanking him? I've always learned there are always 2 sides to everything..Couldn't you have resolved without putting all over the net..This guy is trying to make a living..As if it isn't tough enough without bullshit like this..I think you owe Juan a public apology..I have similar days, when things dont go right on my own boat..Cliff.
     
  2. Bayside

    Bayside Member

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    Todd Fraser
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    Juan always fishes hard but Juan was not there and you paid for a inshore trip. Juan needs to tell his side I am sure he will let us know.
     
  3. Jig Strike

    Jig Strike . . . new and improved

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    Glenn
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    You sound whiny and inept.
    I could be wrong... but, these are your words.
     
  4. I hate seals

    I hate seals Advertiser Advertiser

    Location:
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    Bryan Z
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    A $775 trip down to $675, down to $550 sounds like a deal. Mistakes happen, and one thing I have learned, if it starts bad, just bail the whole deal. Don't try to make it happen when it's bad from the start. Trust your gut feeling.

    To me it sounds like the guys were trying to catch you fish. We hook and hand all the time.

    I have yet to meet a crew that does not want to put their clients on fish.

    Is pretty commonplace to tip on the original cost of the trip. Much like going to a restaurant and getting a discount, you tip on the original bill.

    $55 for two crew for all day. That's hard to read.

    Best of luck next time your down there. Might want to try La Paz, I took the wife there a few years ago and had a blast. The Panga ran $220 total for 2 guys. All the fish we wanted and more.
     
  5. Swarthy Dago

    Swarthy Dago Coredor de las olas

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    My name is Nobody
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    Always one to never make immediate assumptions, but I've heard enough already. :deadhorse
     
  6. TunaMatt

    TunaMatt Newbie

    Location:
    Encinitas
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    Matt
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    Capt. Juan has always filled my fishing needs and never had a bad experience. I'll always fish the Top Gun or Maverick.Sorry you didn't enjoy yours
     
  7. Larmo

    Larmo Strip it. Mend it. Hit it!

    Location:
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    Larry
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    Your Cabo
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    Flaming on here is chicken shit call Juan and talk to him directly. We won a daily and second overall in the PV marlin tournament with him in 08. The only boat that did better was Bad Company a 60 Viking with Hseih's six figure tournament crew and a couple hundred grand in gear. Jaun is third generation PV. His dad and grandfather were port captains in PV. He's a great captain and a great fisherman. As far as his honesty goes, One of our prizes was an outboard which was a pain to deal with in a recession but he stuck with it and found a local buyer and sent us our cut.

    As far as the fishing goes, this is a great season but you can't fish the bay. The boat died on you. The gear's tired because the economy sucks and sponsorships are shit when no one is buying gear. That's ocean fishing in Mexico. Try again and don't talk shit about Juan on a message board. That's just not cool.
     
  8. Jig Strike

    Jig Strike . . . new and improved

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    Glenn
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    Even if their client is sleeping?[​IMG]

    I think someone has watched too many fishing shows...
    30 minutes of beside the boat action with theme music
    playing under the narrator
    .

    I would LOVE to hear from the captain.
    That always shifts things back into reality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  9. Professor

    Professor Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    Yale
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    Guys Juan was acting as a booking agent for a for a poorly run trip with junk tackle. All too typical of a Mexico operation unfortunately and it gives the very few quality operations down there a hard way to go. He may be your buddy and he may be a great skipper but it doesn’t sound like he is much of a booking agent. If you’ve got conditions for a booking it’s the agent’s job to make them understood not the client.

    The guy gave a pretty objective report and all the good buddy’s as usual have to pile on.
     
  10. Jig Strike

    Jig Strike . . . new and improved

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    Glenn
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    Bargain Price + Third World = Unpredictable Experience


    If you’ve got conditions for a booking, there is really no way for an agent to articulate them for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  11. dhamarsportfish

    dhamarsportfish Captain Danny Gomez

    Location:
    Marina La Cruz De Huanacaxtle Tuna Landing
    Name:
    Danny Gomez
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    27 ft Super Panga-30Ft Blackfin- 27ftSuper Panga
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    chilucas noes his shit, he fish hard always
     
  12. Hard Core

    Hard Core Fishing Lunatic

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon and La Cruz, Mexico
    Name:
    Barnesy
    Boat:
    Parker "Hard Core", Alumaweld Pro Elite "Hard Core Deuce"; Blackfin FB "Dhamar II"
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    I don't understand this, $500 for that boat for 8 hours, and farming roosters on a 3 count. Need to re-assess man. That barely covers the fuel. Ask for guidance in advance, and if you're used to catching bonita, tell the crew that in advance. Roosters aren't bonita, they're smart. Let the crew hook 'em in such a case.

    I've spent a ton of money chasing fish down there and I can tell you it can be an ass kicking anytime.

    Book full days (dark to dark), book a few days, and you'll eventually catch 'em. It's FISHING!

    I've been skunked or had a shitty day a million times and I've been throwing money in the fire with a few more zeros for awhile.

    I've seen Top Gun hammer 'em firsthand, take this review in perspective folks...
     
  13. MoMo Fish

    MoMo Fish Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
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    I thought this was a fishing forum to share expierences so what is not cool about that? That is why I come here to read and not just drink the kool aid from the guy next to me? The guy had spoken to Juan that day and still things got screwed up so he did what was expected of him as a customer. I'm sure Juan is a great family guy but that does excuse any negative thing that may happen cause he earned some brownie points in the past. You give a bad expierence you get a bad feedback. Thats life or business.

    I am still fairly new to fishing out in SoCal and this is also the first neg I heard of Juan, but its still valid feedback. I ONLY wish more people shared there expierence as that would have saved me some $ early on going on crappy boats from the local landings. I am NOT friends with either party involved and can speak without any bias. Fishing can suck all day every day, but what makes a GOOD expierence is the crew/boat. WTF do you pay for if its not to have a good, fun trip regardless if you catch a lizardfish or a marlin.

    Any industry that is so depended on something so unpredicable (you don't always catch) needs to value the customer service side of the business (I owned several companies and can talk from expierence). That is something that is totally missed by a lot of boats here and in Mexico. And not i'm not spending more than a few hundred on a day trip either as that is not ONE of the points of going to Mexico. Many good trips can be had for 200-300 for a day down there. I don't normal post but this hit a nerve and had to let it out. :_diarrhea_:
     
  14. MoMo Fish

    MoMo Fish Well-Known "Member"

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    Seriousely? She took a nap until the boat got to the fishing grounds so did you expect them to fish while its going full speed ahead?

    Really? They sound whiny and inept? All this from what you read on a fishing report post? Wow, lost all respect.

    Again, Juan Moll has a great reputation but he was not on the boat and was booking the trips. If BMW starts to sell crappy cars they didn't build that will effect there reputation regardless if they build it or not. That is the risk you take when you put your name next to anything. Any expierenced business person will tell you that your reputation is everything and never ever put your name next to something unless your 100% certain of the product. A boat engine going out, bad gear and deckhands that are not paying attention is not something I would want to put my name next to, especially with Juan's history in PV.
     
  15. caserock

    caserock Student of life ....

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Mike
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    La Otra
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    Not questioning the story...but like others ... I have had nothing but a stellar set of experiences with Juan Pablo ..and Nacho ..and Zanate.... Heading back this Thanksgiving to go fishing with his outfit and I have zero concerns. I always pay a deposit ... because I think it makes for good business. I understand you had short notice and did not pay a deposit. As far as communication ...juan pablo speaks and emails very very good english... he's a stand up guy !!!!! my two centavos !!!!
     
  16. Odium

    Odium Newbie

    Location:
    West Covina
    Name:
    Odium
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    Odi Maru
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    I forwarded the link to him on August 28th.

    Hi John,

    The gift tip is a great idea, I'll definitely do that in the future.

    As for the reel idea, I was thinking the same thing for the future.

    Thank you for the ideas!

    I agree, money talks. But Juan the following in his email(check the opening post):
    "I usually take a deposit but since it is close to date i will take your word and just make the full payment day of the charter."

    As for what the crew may have understood, I booked an 8 hour trip and asked for roosters/dorado. If they those fish weren't around, let me know and we can target other fish. I'd rather be disappointed with the truth instead of being given lip service and taken for a ride.


    I agree, he has had a very very very track record. That is one of the biggest reasons why I decided to book with him. However, that does not change the fact that we had a very bad experience and thus a bad report was written.

    Miscommunication happens, I'm very very very used to it in my field of work. But no business man should ever say "If you do not like the way they fish, you do not have to pay me" if they are not willing to stand behind it. Again, I had no intention of not paying; I was just trying to see if we could work things out after a long day of mishaps. In addition, the last minute price change from 500 to 550 was just insult to injury.

    I was hoping to talk this over with Juan but out last conversation did not end well at all. Either way, the way I see it, it's just like checking out reviews at at tripadvisor; one negative review is not going to tarnish an operation, nor will it stop others from going with that operation.


    "Sounds to me like there was some miscomunication to start with and then the trip went downhill from there." -Agreed

    "Misunderstanding - It happens" - Yes it does, but this does seem a bit out of hand considering we spoke on the phone three times that day.

    "No Deposit - Money Talks" - See my comment above, Juan said just pay the day of.

    "Boat problems - It happens" - Agreed, and Juan was very nice by agreeing to give us more time on the water to make up for the boat problems.

    "Bait - 24 pieces is PLENTY for an inshore day" - This wasn't really a big issue for me, I apologize if it came out negatively. I was just documenting for the report.

    "Not catching a Rooster or Dodo - It's fishing" - I've been skunked several times and never felt robbed or cheated. I think the disappoint here, really lies with the lip service and price change at the very end.


    "I just wonder how your story would have been if you each caught a rooster? It sounds to me like a lack of fish just blew your story out of proportion." - Regardless of how I respond, I don't think I will change your mind of what happened. However, I did write this report very objectively, otherwise I would not have tried to document anything at all or provided pictures; I would have simply went on a bashfest. Had we both caught roosters, we both would have probably been much happier and the report would have probably gone along the lines of "alls well that ends well." However, that did not happen. In the end, Juan quoted words he would not stand by and changed prices with me on the water.

    I'm sure Juan is a great guy, I just had a bad experience with him. I'd love to sit down, have a beer, and talk it over with him; but he made no attempt to contact me after the fact.
    Again, one bad experience will not tarnish years of good reports. I'm just reporting my bad day on the water.


    I didn't know attention to detail would be a bad thing.

    How is it that I misunderstood, when I quoted the date and price and he responded with his own confirmation?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So why would I be thanking him when he gave my captain to another group?

    I've provided Juan with the link, I'm also quite sure that Ali has as well, but he has yet to chime in on it.

    As for resolving this off the net, he made it pretty apparent in our last phone conversation that there was nothing to talk about.

    As I've mentioned twice in this multiquote already, one negative review is not going to sway people after years of good reports. I had one bad day on the water and I'll report the good days on the water as well as the bad days.


    Whiny? Perhaps. Inept? I wouldn't quite agree. What are you basing this on? Did I not write this objectively, providing evidence where ever possible?

    Thanks for adding so much to this thread.

    He made it quite apparent there was nothing to talk about in our last phone conversation. I understand he has an impeccable track record, that is the exact reason why I booked with him in the first place! But an awesome track record doesn't mean that mishaps do not happen. I had a bad experience, I reported it, period.

    I'm sorry, napping isn't permitted on the way out to fishing grounds? And by the way, I must have been taking pictures in my sleep right?

    Thanks again for adding, oh so much, to this thread.

    Thanks for understanding, I tried to write this objectively.

    Tons of good experiences/reviews doesn't mean a bad one will never happen.

    As for the farming, one was farmed on a three count with no supervision. The other farmings were within the advice given by the crew.

    Thanks MoMo.

    If Juan had just said, "Fishing has been slow recently" and we ended up getting skunked, that's fishing. But he said, "These guys know how to fish. If you do not like the way they fish, you do not have to pay me." Don't say anything you are not willing to stand behind.


    Thanks again MoMo.

    I agree, Juan does speak English very well and his emails were fine. However, I had no problem paying a deposit, but Juan told me to just pay everything the day of. I'll insist on making a deposit where ever I book in the future.
     
  17. Madrider

    Madrider Passenger

    Location:
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    James
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    Thanks Odium--I'll remember never to go out on that operation if I ever go to PV. Poor service is poor service --There is always two sides to every story but Just going by judgement I tend to believe what you said and I'll never fish that operation.
     
  18. T BICKLE

    T BICKLE super cool LA guy

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    garrett
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    i was thinking the same thing
     
  19. Carl

    Carl Bridesmaid,,,,,,,Again

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    Carl
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    Sounds to me he got you out fishing on a break even deal. Your girl was a very inexperienced angler in the eyes of the crew. I base this on your statements to the fact that the crew left her alone to show her stuff on the first stop and bite. They then went the extra mile to get her hooked up by trying to use their hands on her line to hook the next bite(s). As they had apparently concluded this had a higher chance of success.
    They tried to get you on Roosters which was a no go. They realized this was a low % target and burned some gas to find Dodo's..This didn't work so they tried yet another idea....Sounds to me like a lot of fishing effort and gas for 5 bills...This is far leess than a local 6 pack boat in so cal....You got the boat for less $ for only the two of you and burned a consicerable amount of fuel and tried different things after plan A didn't work...
    I have never been to PV and fish locally on private boats with no real fondness for charter operations in general.. I have no affinity for or connection with anyone in PV and had no predisposed bias when I read your post
    and that is what I got out of it....
    Sorry you two weren't able to enjoy yourselves though,...
     
  20. Sherm

    Sherm aka: The Sherminator

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    Scott
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    Gee Odium.....one negative review won't ruin someone's reputation huh? There is at least one person (other than yourself) that now won't use the service because of your one review.

    It sounds like something went horribly wrong on this trip. That's not the Juan Moll operation I have fished with. But then again.....I didn't book the Top Gun for inshore fishing at $550 for 8 hours.

    I think I remember when you were asking for advice on this trip. I didn't go back to look it up so if it's not you....my apologies. But most recommendations for PV and using Juan is for the big offshore species. For the inshore stuff Lora and his panga is awesome. The Top Gun usually goes after the big fish. It maybe that inshore gear on the boat doesn't get much use or maintenance.

    Sorry you had a bad experience......this isn't normal with Juan and his outfit. I have had nothing but quality fishing with them.
     
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