Automatic External Defibrilators (AED's)

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range Fishing' started by DC61, May 31, 2012.

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  1. DC61

    What is the boat's obligation to OUR safety? Of course there are safety seminars (mandated by the Coast Guard) given on all trips. SOME (not all) boatshave AED's. I can tell you that they absolutely do make a difference.

    The reality is that without shocking a heart, CPR is most likely NOT going to bring back a victim in cardiac arrest. The heart is a muscle that is electrically charged. When the heart stops beating it usually goes into a lethal rhythm called Ventricular Fibrillation. The ONLY way to break this rhythm is to deliver anelectrical shock. Without a shock the heart will not return to its normal rhythm.

    You have seen your eyelid quiver. The heart is a muscle and does the samething. This is called Ventricular Fibrillation (V-Fib). The only way to get theheart to stop quivering is to put one patch on the right upper part of thechest and another one on the left lower part of the rib cage and deliver ashock of electrical current. This shock "resets" the heart whichhopefully causes the heart to stop beating altogether. Ideally the hearts ownability to start beating on its own takes over and the patient survives. Without a shock, the heart will not.

    So, AED's have become commonplace. They are hanging on the wall like fire extinguishers in the airport. Thousands of businesses have them on site fortheir employee's safety. Crews are required by the Coast Guard to have CPR andFirst Aid training. Several of the boat owners have elected to put AED's on theboat (Excel, Red Rooster, Qualifier 105).

    Face it, we as long range fishermen are getting older. Younger anglers arehaving trouble affording both the cost of the trip and many cannot get the timeoff from work.

    In your opinion, should AED's be required?
  2. Mangisda

    Absolutely yes. It should be mandatory.
  3. Mr GreenJeans

    My fishing club brings an AED along on every trip and makes sure someone on the charter is trained to use it. With that said, we should also recognize that an added requirement will increase the cost to the boat owner and either cut their profit margin or increase the cost to the paying customer. Therein lies the conundrum.
  4. Doda2na

    Aed's can be purchased for 1-2 grand. IMO a small price to save lives.
  5. Sactotuna

    It's the cost of ONE Acc ATD.
    If the boat wanted to put a $5 surcharge on every trip until it's paid for I'd send them a note thanking them!
  6. Baja_Traveler

    I have my own, and it sits right on top of the first aid kit in the truck so it goes everywhere with me. I do alot of competitive shooting, and there are alot of old geezers I shoot with that I'd rather not have to go to their funeral, so I'm prepared. The cost of AED's has come way down from where they used to be. No excuse anymore for a business not having one...
  7. titan05

    Having survived my 4th heart attack a couple of months ago I am all for boats having AED's and that will be a factor in what boat I fish in the future.
  8. Stillman

    Same deal with me. I have my own and I bring it to some of the shooting events our club puts on. I"m certified by the American Red Cross for Adult CPR/AED. The problem is I'm an old geezer myself and I hope someone would know how to use my AED on me. Incidentally, I was on a 3 day Albacore trip on the Q105 a few years ago and on the second day we had a guy collapse on kelp patty stop. Well the crew started CPR and Capt. Joe broke out the AED. After 45 minutes of working on the poor man, Capt. Joe said that the Coast Gaurd had given him permission to make the decision to cease first aid and we high tailed back to SD (12 hours) to meet the coroner and police. Boy, that was a weird experience.
  9. Outhouse

    I don't know if the boats have them or not, but everywhere I travel, I carry aspirin both for me and anyone that should have an attack. Heart disease is rampant in my family and I've told everyone in my family and at work where mine are should I suddenly pass out. So far, I've been fortunate in that my heart is healthy (I had a heart cath 2 years ago), but it can and does happen suddenly.
  10. Stanley

    They're not that expensive anymore. You can get a decent AED for under $1,500 and a re-furbished for under $1K.
  11. The Notorious S.U.A.

    I'm behind all the boats having AED's but your attitude in the first post is absolutely atrocious.

    all this "What is the boat's obligation to OUR safety?" type of stuff is ridiculous. Each boat spends lots of time (and money) on making sure everyone is safe.

    if you want an AED then ask for it, demanding it and phrasing the question as if you are a neglected dignitary is absurd.

    the Long Range forum has turned into a lot of entitled whiners.
  12. Baja Dreamer

    Damn Jim! I didn't know you'd had another one! :eek:

    Glad you're still with us bud! :)
  13. Baja Dreamer

    Get a grip there George, he didn't "demand" anything at all. The guy was just askin' a question. ;)
  14. ebnash

    I agree. All this entitlement shit is horrid. Seems like no one is willing to be responsible for themselves anymore. The truth is, although AED's are very useful in administering CPR these days, the likelihood of resuscitation at that point is very low percentage. They teach you this the very first hour of CPR/First Aid training.

    If you fear for your health, then maybe the choice of committing to a LR trip is not worth it.

    Next thing you know, the government will require us to pass a physical before getting on a LR boat to satisfy some liability horseshit...
  15. ebnash

    I agree with your reasoning, and I would do the same in your case, but should they be legally required to have this equipment?
  16. poncherello

    I thinks its up to the boat owner. As Titan05 said that would sway which boat he would fish on. That would most likely mean most LR boats would have them as a business stand point. I would never expect a boat to have an aed unless it was mandated by the coast guard.

    Having said that, the question should be posed to the coast guard if that should be required safety equipment along with the life vests, life rafts, etc.

    Personally, I think a bottle of oxygen would be utilized in more instances than an aed. You would be surprised how people come back from certain types of shock just by using oxygen.

    I know O2 cant stop a heart attack, but if you are using an aed, along with a bag valve mask (bvm) and O2 you are resuscitating at 100% O2 vs. 21% which is ambient O2.

    There is much more than just using an AED. Not trying to stir up anything, but I have seen it first hand.
  17. Stanley

    Exactly. Also, is the boat going to incur additional liability by improper use of the AED? I think it's up to the individual boat owners to decide.
  18. titan05

    Legally required? many regulations as it is and the fact of the matter is that if I'm at Alijos or Clarion or anywhere offshore and I go down with a cardiac event, my chances are not that good even if they had a AED.

    All I can do is try to increase the odds that I make it home and if that means fishing a boat that has a AED then that has to enter into my decison making process. I want to go fishing but do I want to drop dead on a boat....hell no.

    Life is full of or not fish....AED or no choice and I have to live with to speak.
  19. kcarnesmd

    Speaking as a physician, having an AED available may be useful in certain situations such as V. Fib arrest or ventricular tachycardia (V. Tach). A properly timed shock may help establish a more normal rhythm. The AED does not treat the underlying cause of the abnormal rhythm, which is usually a heart attack. Prompt medical attention within minutes to an hour is always necessary to properly re-establish bloodflow to heart tissue that is being starved of oxygen. This would include administration of blot clot dissolving medications, emergent cardiac catheterization, balloon angioplasty, stent placement, and even emergent open heart surgery. None of these options are available when you are hundreds of miles out to sea. Even when the coast guard is activated, it will take many hours before proper treatment is available. Thus, having an AED available may not ultimately improve the survival rate, because there is no way to re-establish blood flow to a dying heart on any LR boat (no cath lab or OR).
    Many of the LR boats, including the RP (which I tend to ride), are now carrying AED's. In principal it is a good idea, but as stated above it may not improve your survival rate if you were to have a heart attack at sea.
    The RP purchased the AED about 5 years ago after a fisherman collapsed on deck with a massive heart attack. My brother, who is an anesthesiologist, was standing next to the guy when it happened. He worked for an hour to resuscitate the guy without success. The RP steamed back to SD and was met by the coroner. The autopsy showed complete blockage of his main coronary artery. Having an AED available would not have helped in this sad case.
    To repeat myself, using an AED is only a temporizing measure, and must be followed up immediately with an intervention to re-establish bloodflow to the heart.
    When I go on the RP I am usually accompanied by my brother the anesthesiologist and another friend who is a heart surgeon. We realize there is little we could do at sea to help a fellow fisherman having a heart attack. An aspirin, some oxygen, maybe a shock from the AED, a call to the coast guard, and most importantly a prayer.
    I hope this is helpful.
  20. Cutt

    Absolutely yes. We should all get certified on the way down to the grounds. I would to learn how to use one to save a life, if not my own.